the secret to becoming a great jazz guitarist

[targuit]

You know I have always been leery about those YT conversion things. In truth if I had the cash lying around I would spring for Transcribe or Song Surgeon just for the fun of it, but the YT slow down function of 50% works just fine for me. I don't really need the other gizmos and widgets.

[AlsoRan]

On a more serious note, Mon Ami Targuit, if you can really internalize those songs, and learn to produce those lines at will on other songs, you just might reach your some of your improvisational goals. And with your voice, assuming you don't burn it out with cigarettes and screaming at the "little 'uns" in your life, you would become a triple threat.

1) Like Destiny Tot, you can actually sing

2) With your Sibellius you can write songs

3) You will have developed your improvisational skills enough to play a nice solo.

These are worthwhile goals that you have a chance at reaching.

It has got to be nice to be able so sing the melody and then improvise. The public seems to like having that human voice in the performance as well, especially the non-hardcore Jazz types.

Good luck in your mission.

[targuit]

Thanks very kindly. But one thing - is there a cure for being old?

Timing really is everything in life...

[emanresu]

You know I have always been leery about those YT conversion things. In truth if I had the cash lying around I would spring for Transcribe or Song Surgeon just for the fun of it, but the YT slow down function of 50% works just fine for me. I don't really need the other gizmos and widgets.

You know, with those gizmos and widgets you can turn the tempo down when recording a solo, then turn it back up and show your incredible skills to other people

[JakeAcci]

But the biggest obstacle that guys like me faced for most of my life are ....gone!

I think an interesting part about learning music is that there are obstacles we are aware of and obstacles we are not aware of. Personally I've found that achieving one thing just means discovering new obstacles. Then more achievement means more obstacles.

But I finally started to use that half speed adjustment on YouTube with up tempo tunes played by a variety of great jazz guitarists and....as I said, the veils fall away. Their technique is revealed just by playing at half speed. Things are so much better for aspiring guitarists today.

While watching or listening at 1/2 speed opens up some doors, the utility of it pales in comparison to using software like Transcribe or Audacity (the latter of which is free.)

For me, the ability to highlight small sections- short phrases or even groups of only a couple of notes - has been a gigantic time saver. Rather than constant rewinding or finding spots, with these programs you can find the exact clip you want to hear and with two clicks listen to it as many times as you want at whatever speed you want.

I know this might seem like only a small distinction, but if you are transcribing a whole solo, or album, or whatever, imagine how many times you have to click rewind or try to scroll to find your place on a video...using the software saves an enormous amount of time with no detriment to the musical growth intended.

Why? Well, anyone can hear a master guitarists nuances at ballad speeds.

I think there are a lot of nuances worth hearing where speed isn't necessarily the issue. For example, phrase length.

Slowing down is a very valuable tool we have now, but, it's not everything. There are a great many things that, if you don't hear them, no tempo reduction is going to help you hear them.

But to get the nuances of Coltrane's (Pass'....Martino's....Coryell's.... - you get the idea) style at 180 bpm has been impossible up until the invention of these new fangled software that keeps the pitch but allows you to slow down the tempo. I love it!

180 is a fairly standard medium swing tempo and it probably should be on any studious guitarists to-do-list to be able to comfortably hear what's going on in a recording at this tempo, or much faster. Not trying to put on machismo about this, it's just the reality of the tempos we often have to deal with. Uptempo is considered, what, 250+?

Not because I want to 'copy' Wes - I want to understand what makes his playing 'tick'. The nuances. The fingering approach. I literally can play right along with Wes's burning solos at 0.5 speed. That is all I want to do. Because I am capable of playing what he is doing at half speed and then ramping it up.

The unfortunate thing is that being able to perform someone else's solo doesn't guarantee an awareness of what actually makes that solo work. In fact, it can completely bypass it. This is why (my opinion is that) it's never enough to just transcribe and play, there has to be analysis, integration, implementation, etc.

You know I have always been leery about those YT conversion things. In truth if I had the cash lying around I would spring for Transcribe or Song Surgeon just for the fun of it, but the YT slow down function of 50% works just fine for me. I don't really need the other gizmos and widgets.

Audacity is free and Transcribe at $50 is well worth it. The ability to highlight and repeat small clips (As small as you like - one note, two note, etc) is incredibly valuable. I always hammer this to my students and I have to say it for about 10 weeks straight until they really believe me.

I use a laptop in my lessons now and can pretty much instantly turn any youtube video into an mp3, then open it in Transcribe, and we can all get under the hood together and look at exactly what is going on. (Then of course I delete the file after the lesson.)

[emanresu]

I think an interesting part about learning music is that there are obstacles we are aware of and obstacles we are not aware of. Personally I've found that achieving one thing just means discovering new obstacles. Then more achievement means more obstacles.

I'd agree but don't like the word "obstacle". Not because its negative but a lot of times it's not accurate word. I mean - lack of a skill is not an obstacle.. Hm, for example if there is a river but no bridge, the river itself is an obstacle. The lack of bridge is not an obstacle. Its just a missing link on the road.

In my many years of practicing stuff I think the most fails happen because we learn some stuff and expect it to do something other that we actually learned. I mean, the whole process is a major puzzle. There is tune, solo, comp, fill - to get them all work great in jazz and be creative at the spot we need so many different skills that are "governed" by 4 memory types who all have to communicate with eachother with no hickups eventually. So there are dozens of little skills that are needed and those dozens of skills can be trained in dozens of different ways. And they have to become one big crazy pile of knowledge that is accessible by that inspiration... lightbulb. And of course, smile to the audience the same time. And not play louder than their talking volume is.

[edh]

"The baby zebra doesn't ask the herd to slow down". David Attenborough zebra naturalist


No he doesn't, and he will probably end up as lunch.

[destinytot]

"The baby zebra doesn't ask the herd to slow down". David Attenborough zebra naturalist


No he doesn't, and he will probably end up as lunch.

As might the industrious ant when the lazy grasshopper gets hungry.

[nick1994]

The secret to becoming a great jazz guitarist:

the real secret to becoming a great jazz guitarist is in this video....get on the bloody stage and play!!

[targuit]

You know, with those gizmos and widgets you can turn the tempo down when recording a solo, then turn it back up and show your incredible skills to other people

But isn't that a form of 'cheating'? I feel the same way about Autotune or Melodyne. I would never use them.

Now I don't have a single qualm about slowing down someone else's recording to analyze or quite simply to play along. On a serious note I think that capacity is very undervalued - the play along part. As an example, this early morning I'll use that slow down capacity to listen and play through the first Joe Pass Virtuoso CD.

The truth is that even Wes and Joe were humans with (probably) just ten fingers. And there are only twelve tones in the chromatic scale. But part of the magic in their playing is their ability to hang at those fast tempos. This is the area I'm most interested in.

I know I sound like a kid with a new toy. But I did not realize that YT had upgraded this 'slow down' capacity until this few days. They put the software I 'need' into their functionality. That is ok by me.

[Thumpalumpacus]

(Always intending a respectful and friendly tone, despite strong feelings on the subject.)

I'd consider it not just inappropriate but downright cruel to knowingly apply too great a challenge to an 'elementary'/inexperienced student of 'jazz' guitar, which is what I assume the 'baby zebra' to represent for present purposes.

But for 'the advancing guitarist', sure - 'if you can't stand the heat...' (and all that - er - 'jazz')

As Casey Kasim used as his sign-off, "reach for the stars, you'll land on the clouds."

Nothing cruel about high standards on musical instrument. No one is going to be flayed, or burnt, or drawn-and-quartered. The worst that can happen is a bum note or three -- lord knows I've played more than my own share.

[emanresu]

But isn't that a form of 'cheating'? I feel the same way about Autotune or Melodyne. I would never use them.

I was joking, kinda. But seriously, you can see the faces that they'll make some day if you practice real good Sure you tell them afterwards it was sped up. What kind of person would you be if not doing that

[targuit]

I have to admit that my enthusiasm tempered a bit early this morning as I was listening to up tempo cuts off Joe Pass' Virtuoso CD at half speed. I am sure it would be far more effective to use Transcribe or Audacity. I confess that Audacity annoys me. I may be technologically challenged but I get annoyed with software that does not provide clear instructions, which is just about every bit of software these days from cell phones to printers. Now no one provides a Manual. Or they suggest you print up all hundred pages.

In any case the YT slow down function does work, but yes it is limited and primitive. So I agree with you, Jake, that Transcribe would doubtlessly be better. And I knew someone would take issue with my calling 180 bpm up tempo. I honestly pay little attention to metronome speed settings and never think of that as an issue in playing. I don't measure other things like parts of anatomy either.

[Lobomov]

If you have an android phone the music player allows you to adjust the speed in increments of 10 percent of the original tempo. (At least my samsung is like that)

Sendt fra min SM-G925F med Tapatalk

[Cunamara]

"The baby zebra doesn't ask the herd to slow down". David Attenborough zebra naturalist

Which is why they are more likely to get eaten by the lion, along with the old and/or sick zebras.

Not that you were necessarily going here, TH, but this thread has triggered a couple of nerves for me.

IMHO the point is to learn how to play the music. I don't care how someone does it; if they play great, I am not about to look down on them for learning a different way than I have. They did what they needed to do. But human nature is such that we often get dogmatic about the "right" way to do something, which is usually how we'd do it.

If one can transcribe Bird or Dizzy or Holdsworth listening at full speed, good. But frankly, to my ears, learning to master transcribing means that one has mastered transcribing. It doesn't mean one can play jazz. I am always amazed at YouTube videos showing someone playing along note for note with a recording. Great, but can he or she play their own shit? That's where the rubber meets the road. The only reason to transcribe is to understand how something works in order to be able to play something new. If one can get there through transcribing, good for them. If they take some other route, good for them.

What works for me may not work for someone else (given that I still suck after playing this music for 35+ years, my approach may not even work for me). So I am not going to tell anyone to do it my way. LOL!

[grahambop]

Even the free VLC media player has a decent slowdown option, I think you can set loop points as well.

[Cunamara]

But isn't that a form of 'cheating'? I feel the same way about Autotune or Melodyne. I would never use them.

Les Paul did it...

[targuit]

Do you guys trust some of those free software sites? Makes me a bit nervous of malware.

[emanresu]

Audacity is ancient. Pretty trustworthy.
So is VLC.

[Generalmojo]

I'm willing to bet that if Miles, Parker, or whoever was born much later, they'd slow stuff down. I mean, they pushed the limits. They used the technology at the time and used it to their benefit. Why can't we?

It's like guitar pedals. So and so didn't use pedals! Yeah, but I don't see anyone giving Charloe Christian a hard time because he wasn't playing a banjo. The electric guitar is the equivalent of some sort of crazy new instrument when he was around.

What about even using records at all to learn? "IM MY DAY WE GOT ONE CHANCE! YOU HEARD IT LIVE AND EITHER YOU GOT IT OR YOU DIDN'T!"

Here's the thing. If you don't use it, someone else will. And if you're slowing down stuff that is very groove oriented, slowing it down is gonna reveal some really cool things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matt.guitarteacher]

If you're talking about android, audipo is awesome. It's to transcribe what ireal is to band in a box: not quite as good, but it's so convenient , being mobile ( and free ), that it's mostly better, day-to-day.