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Hello Everyone,
I play guitar for about 2 years and I try to develop my speed.
So I started playing scales with metronome, and I got to eights notes at about 130 bpm pretty fast and slowly climbed up to 150 bpm. But at 150 bpm I always get stuck. My technique starts screw up, I miss notes, I pick wrong strings and I fret wrong frets. Somedays I am suprisingly able to play at 150 and start climbing and i can go all the way to almost 160 and then the next day I screw up again at 150.
How can I progress?
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05-04-2016 04:20 AM
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The reason for hitting speed walls are motion problems. Review your motion and you will past that Wall.
Something that Works for me is to separate hand practice and to play only the right hand motion and then the left hand in order to discover what is the hand limiting my speed.Last edited by sjl; 05-04-2016 at 06:03 AM.
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After 2 years of playing, you should be focussing on about 20 other things that have nothing to do with speed. You atre talking about Jazz guitar, right?
Speed will come as other aspects develop. If you have speed without the other things, you have nothing!
thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog
1. How fast did I just type that?
2. Who the f*ck cares?
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Well summarized, princeplanet !
to try to answer you 2nd question, I'd ask another question : are shredders jazz oriented ?
There are other threads connected to this subject, if you wish to see demos of unmusical performance .;.
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Hey princeplanet got your point. I guess I really should focus on other things now
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Speed is the fringe benefit of excellent technique, it comes on it's own.
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It's just another opinion, but I say do NOT fall in the common trap of practicing nothing but scales and arps fast. Learn to play cool stuff, then down the track, bring that stuff up to speed. Fingers and Ears ideally should develop at the same rate, if one gets way out of whack against the other, you don't grow as a "musician".
Originally Posted by zorner
Sure you can obsess over technique before you can play any meaningful Jazz (like Rock shredders love to do), but this can actually create very bad habits for the Jazz player, for the ear and the fingers. You don't know the technical requirements to play cool stuff until you've worked out exactly what kind of cool stuff you want to play.
If you think fast scales and arps are cool, then ask questions in a Metal or Fusion forum
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Smh...
The hate on this site for technique is frankly embarrassing.
Do you think any other instruments approach learning from such an asinine standpoint? Perfect technique is drilled into other players of all instruments from day 1. Loooooooooong before most ever even attempt to play jazz.
To the op, pm me your email and I'll send over a couple picking videos that have been well received here, by some pretty great pickers (Reg, Jack Zucker, etc) who understand playing bebop requires major chops. Fwiw, I can play 16ths at between 170 and 200bpm, so I'm definitely not talking out my a@@.
How does one play changes at 250bpm if they can't play 250bpm???
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Oh, you mean like piano, horns etc, where they first learn to read, develop good clean tone and then memorize melodies before or at least during the technical development phase of their learning? Originally Posted by vintagelove
C'mon on, if you've taught guitar, you should know that shredding scales is not the best way to start out at Jazz. I could play 16ths at 200 before I came to Jazz, and I can safely say that it hurt me far more than it helped. I love fast Bop, but there's a right way to get there, and it's not the way I did.
Funny how different folks get embarrassed by different things. Myself, I'm mightily embarrassed by threads about "speed" on this forum. It's nearly always started by players who don't have the other knowledge or skills in place yet to put the technique to any good use. So why the rush?
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
Good technique may have somehow "hurt you", but it sure as hell helped 99% of the rest of the musicians in the world.
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OK, if you say so. Originally Posted by vintagelove
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You need super comfy licks when playing close to the limit. Not all fingerings work then, even a small bump on the road can make you hickup.
I'd suggest not to play scales stubbornly from the bottom to the top(well, you sure must try and test them of course) but figure out good sounding and extremely comfortable phrases inside them. Doesn't even matter if you remember them exactly the next day. The bones want to know what is possible and what not.
Btw, its one of the jobs that take a LOT of time. And you'll probably forget more than you learn... but you get the confidence in return and can play fast and solid while relaxed.
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To perform jazz... you need a balanced set of skills. If you play perfectly balanced melodic solos, but don't have any chops.... it also get boring, just like burnin solos.
All the technical practice of scales, arpeggios, any melodic and rhythmic patterns and organization.... plus the harmonic BS. Being able to play a melodic phrase and then repeat it with different harmonic reference, (change the chord pattern), anyway all that's just to help you develop the skills on your instrument to be able to perform... and maybe even doing so with out staring at your neck the entire time.
I can tell you from being a pro most of my life, the level of performance isn't much fun when the performers don't have chops.
Having chops isn't just about being able to play fast etc.... it almost becomes more valuable when performing slow and medium tempo tunes, being able to feel and lock into subdivisions, you become able to imply without actually playing that much. There are more meaning to playing vanilla than just straight harmonically, being or performing rhythmically vanilla
or straight... personally... much worse.
The more organized and balanced you are with your development the better. When working on anything, try and be aware of the bigger picture... where does it end, what is the final product, is there an end result. Put time into planning beginnings, middles and ends.
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Speed isn't important...until the band plays a fast tune.
There's definitely a skill set one needs to play jazz...and some jazz is fast. Now, I don't think most folks need to be worried about picking every note at 300bpm, but you want to be able to hang, 200, and even 10-20% faster-- is not an unheard of tempo.
I think the thing people forget about sometimes is "practical speed." Assuming your technique isn't holding you up and it's just a matter of time and practice, are you playing over musical examples? Just because you can play a scale at 200bpm doesn't mean you can play a tune at 200bpm.
I'm gonna go back to my "Jazz is like cooking thanksgiving dinner" analogy...there's four pots on the stove, a bunch of trays in the oven, and you still have to remember to heat up Aunt Sally's sweet potatoes in the microwave when she gets here. You gotta pay attention to a lot of things...focus too much on the turkey and you burn the green bean casserole.
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Last time I tried to break the speed limit I got arrested by the jazz police.
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So what do you recommend? Practice fast licks or just practice other things until you reach a good speed? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Biggest thing for me has always been to stay relaxed. I'm not exactly a speed demon (vintagelove --- that's fast!) but I've found there to be a difference between playing slow and practicing for fast (at a slow tempo). If I set a metronome for a student at a super slow tempo and tell them to play their scale, they will, almost invariably, lean back in their chair, let the neck dip down at a weird angle, pick fairly loudly, and put vibrato on notes. Some do all those things, others do a few, and still others do different things but the point is that we all get complacent when we play slow.
So when you practice for speed, play from slow tempos up to fast ones, but always hold the pick and the guitar and your arm, and everything else exactly the same way that you would at a fast tempo. And most of all play relaxed. If you're watching Reg or someone on this forum with serious chops, or Benson, or Lage Lund, or whoever --- they'll all hold the pick differently and wear the guitar differently, and eat different things for dinner but they will ALL be just stupid relaxed. Jelly relaxed. Zero tension.
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Zorner -
I'm curious who your favorite guitarists are and what your playing level is. 2 years of "playing guitar" can mean just about anything depending on the quality of those 2 years.
Based on knowing nothing about your playing level and technique all I could recommend is to take a couple of lessons that address the basics (fretting and picking techniques) so that you don't spend hours practicing bad habits that you will have to unlearn or limit you down the road.
Goals that are poorly defined usually lead to confusion as to how to proceed and frustration with your progress in achieving them.
"I want to improve my speed or reach good speed" would be an example of a poorly defined goal.Last edited by Bosko; 05-06-2016 at 11:22 AM. Reason: more specific
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yes this. I still deal with this..A great bass playing buddy of mine always says once rigamortis sets in there goes the speed, accuracy, etc. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Obviously, OP is talking about physical ability, the technique, of picking at speed, without any reference to being able to play music at speed.
Both are different, although related, to ability to play rehearsed melody and finger patterns at speed.
First you establish what is your max picking speed on one string, then scale, then some patterns and licks. Then you do picking exercises (they are widely available and all will serve as long as you pay attention to discard what does not work) until you can play those at "your" tempo. Then you learn some head and practice that one until you can play it at speed. While doing it you spot repeating patterns and licks and practice those some more. Then you find recordings of other people playing at tempo and try to keep up with recording, applying what you've practiced and discovered. You form a band, where you practice to perform at speed, together with how to fake, ie. not really play that fast and still cover fast tempos convincingly ... Along the way you come to number of sets of patterns and licks you like and feel natural, those become your style.
Then you repeat the process on a new level.
While going through above, from time to time you hit the wall, go back a step, or two, do more exercises, do it slow, do it fast, super fast, super slow ... you examine yourself, figure where you are, what you need and decide if you find it worth all the trouble in regard to your global musical and professional goals.
Never, never, never, you step out with "look, I can do it this fast" attitude, except if that is the thing you want to do, be a Wonder Human Hero who does it fast for the sake of speed and attraction, which is not wrong in any way, you just have to be straight with your self and know what you're doing.
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I think that when you learn late speed might get limited.
I mean, late fifties.
Ronald
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Originally Posted by Vladan
I was listening to a video the other day and the guy (a very fast player) made a good comment. "No matter how fast it may be it still has to have melody to reach people" Very wise advise.
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There's probably something wrong/inefficient with the way you are using your right hand. Without seeing what you do, I can't help. Originally Posted by zorner
Can you video yourself playing?
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