Jazz Guitar Technique, Picking, and Scales

[Roscoe T. Claude]

[This thread merges several of Roscoe's recent threads on picking, technique, and scales.]

I play rock, jazz, blues and metal styles and...not initially because I play guitar...I got into professional strength hand grippers, 3 different varieties and all different strengths: I can close the 2.5 Captains of Crush gripper and only 5 men (sorry ladies!) in the past 26 years have closed the number 4. I know this is not a gripper page, so let me get to the point...the average man who works out can't close a number 1 so my hands are far stronger than the average guitarist's. Like Satriani, Vai, and Dimebag Darrell I play mostly legato in my leads---I used to pick every note but after experimenting I found that legato sounds best to me. I have to keep my picking chops up though to play breakneck rhythms and do the Al DiMeola thing on acoustic. Here's the thing: doing hammer on's and pull off's I get more volume with my stronger fingers but I can't say as my trills are any quicker or that my fingers are much more adroit than they used to be. I do a Steve Vai like practice routine but when I study scales I focus on the melodic minor and bebop varieties: for chord studies I practice jazz exercise progress and II-V-I's in every key. To surmise this epic inquiry, what should I practice to make my fingers more dexterous and quick? I have my own ideas but I'm open to suggestions---Thanks! Jon

[mr. beaumont]

Well, strength doesn't necessarily equal dexterity. Ever see those beefcake dudes at the gym who can't put their arms down?

I'm no speed demon, but what speed I do have in the fretting hand came from a conscious effort to fret the string as lightly as possible--to exert the least amount of strength. It seems to me a good many of the fastest players I know have a similarly light touch.

Playing too hard builds into fatigue.

[Roscoe T. Claude]

mr. beaumont, what you're saying makes perfect sense: A light flutter beats a hard hammer for a soloing effect any day. I think the conscious effort to stay light on my fingers combined with practice should have my left hand technique soaring after awhile. Fatigue? I also do high rep sets with grippers and a squeeze ball so as conditioned as my hands are it's hard to wear them out, but mental fatigue will cause you to tighten up and that will drain you all over. Strength only works when properly applied---think of the last time you saw someone with a clenched fist and jaw "picking" using their arm? Maybe if you're an old punk rocker from way back that's proper technique...! I know where I'm headed after my jazz gig!

[Nate Miller]

you can play with a heavy pressure or a light pressure. I remember one time Jack Petersen had me come up in front of the class and try to pull his pinky finger off the fret board while he fretted a random chord. I couldn't do it. I played football and was unloading trucks in a warehouse the in Houston at age 12, so I was big strapping six footer and there I was pulling on his pinky with both arms. I honestly couldn't budge his little pinky finger.

so there are successful players who use a lot of pressure and those who use light pressure

I tend to think its not so much the pressure or strength of your grip, but rather how efficient you are in your motions.

next time you play scales, try going really slow and be meditative about it. Try and be aware of your whole body. Be aware of every muscle that is being fired. That's probably impossible, but that's what to shoot for. You want to use only the muscles necessary and leave everything else relaxed. A lot of people think they are relaxed, but there is tension in their hands and wrists because of unconscious muscle contractions. These are the one we want to get control of and eliminate

the other part of efficiency is only moving as far as you need to get the job done. For example, if your pick motion takes your pick away from the string, then you have to bring it back to the string before the next attack. The smaller that distance is, the less time it will take to move the pick back to the string. that sort of stuff.

this is the kind of thing you can pay a teacher for, too, but a little bit of meditation and self awareness can go along way. BTW, when I took classical lessons from the department chair there at North Texas this meditative type of scale practice is something he taught me, so there really is something to this meditative stuff. a lot of times when guys say "slow is fast" they are practicing slow with a lot of attention paid to relaxation and efficiency

[mr. beaumont]

I tend to think its not so much the pressure or strength of your grip, but rather how efficient you are in your motions.

You know, that's really it. Economy of movement. The only way I can personally get there is with a light touch. As soon as I start playing hard, all the movements get bigger.

Which mind you, is completely fine sometimes.

[Nate Miller]

You know, that's really it. Economy of movement.

and I'm more like you, I think I have a lighter touch. Definitely lighter than Jack's

but its hard to say. I'm not trying to use a lot of pressure, but I play bass, too, so I sort of have a foggy notion that I still have some grip

I'm just not trying to choke my guitar like a chicken

[Roscoe T. Claude]

Apparently I play by sight and not by ear and I'm not talking about reading notation:
When I'm practicing with a YouTube video and it shows me the changes then I'm
Professor Jazz (or so I think)...but if I just get the key, say C major II-V-I-VI I
try my hand at playing modes, arpeggios and bebop scales--I can discern the chord
changes but have trouble picking up the pitch: if I stay on top of it though and use
the modes I hear those same seven notes and it gets kind of dull, the bigger bad boy
bebops sound good but at the same time not quite right, and the arpeggios are right
on but not very colorful (I just thought to add some chromatic notes and passing tones.)
Does anybody know how to make these "constructions" (chords, scales, arpeggios)
sound like they've got cat class and they've got cat style? I have found that just being
labeled "bebop" or being the politically correct mode for the chord is no cure all---any
ideas?

[Roscoe T. Claude]

I've gotten so used to playing Frank Gambale style sweeps that it is difficult to alternate pick scales and my playing is about as colorful as a monkey in the mud...the only reason I got into Frank's technique videos is he was recommended by a former guitar teacher of mine. I have given Gambale a fair shake as you would say but I honestly think his style is boring b.s. If you want to find out if you've got soul or not listen to anything by Frank then give Stevie Ray's Little Wing a spin...Not Even Close! It's like a tricycle compared to a Harley Davidson--I want to play with power and soul but two things are stopping me: all that comes to mind are
3 note per strings, sweep arpeggios and major/minor pentatonics that sound kind of lame when I compare them to what great jazz and blues players do. I want a style all my own: indeed I demand it but I want to learn the rules before I break them like Reckless Roscoe the Renegade--- P.S. If you disagree about Frank I understand: technically he's a very good player: but as old Albert King would say 'he's just a player...he plays fast, he don't concentrate on no soul, but Stevie Ray got em both! My jazz education started with Al DiMeola and John McLaughlin, but I never learned their music by ear. So: what techniques would you recommend for Bebop and what makes for good ear training??

[destinytot]

I think I experience the opposite to what you've described. My two cents say this:

'Shooba-da-bebop' needs to be as close to speech as possible - which is to say use short 'utterances' (even the musical equivalent of 'text talk', eg. 'c u l8r') in combinations to suit the context, audience and purpose.

Once you've studied the map and made your way onto the actual territory, any thinking 'should' (ideally) be an intuitive response to the (musical and emotional) environment - a response intended to connect (by establishing or repairing rapport) and move (by means of compelling statement and/or performance).

So create your own 'utterances' - or copy widely ('research') until you're able to roll your own 'shooba-da-bebop'. If you'd like examples of how to make your own, I've got time this weekend. (I'm ensconced at home, away from the biggest local holiday/fiesta ​of the year, the Valencia Fallas.)

[grahambop]

Scales and stuff are not enough to make a good jazz solo. Copy some solos and acquire some language. That's how I learned.

[destinytot]

Be meticulous, and focus on a single (short) phrase, without moving on to another until the first has been assimilated.

And I'd use the language to play with other people - otherwise the music (and the language) may as well be preserved in formaldehyde (or whatever taxidermists use), stuffed, and mounted for display.

[christianm77]

I've gotten so used to playing Frank Gambale style sweeps that it is difficult to alternate pick scales and my playing is about as colorful as a monkey in the mud...the only reason I got into Frank's technique videos is he was recommended by a former guitar teacher of mine. I have given Gambale a fair shake as you would say but I honestly think his style is boring b.s. If you want to find out if you've got soul or not listen to anything by Frank then give Stevie Ray's Little Wing a spin...Not Even Close! It's like a tricycle compared to a Harley Davidson--I want to play with power and soul but two things are stopping me: all that comes to mind are
3 note per strings, sweep arpeggios and major/minor pentatonics that sound kind of lame when I compare them to what great jazz and blues players do. I want a style all my own: indeed I demand it but I want to learn the rules before I break them like Reckless Roscoe the Renegade--- P.S. If you disagree about Frank I understand: technically he's a very good player: but as old Albert King would say 'he's just a player...he plays fast, he don't concentrate on no soul, but Stevie Ray got em both! My jazz education started with Al DiMeola and John McLaughlin, but I never learned their music by ear. So: what techniques would you recommend for Bebop and what makes for good ear training??

I think that's a bit harsh. Frank Gambale can sound terrific, it's a different vibe from the great blues guys for sure, and like you I've never been so interested in the technique guys.

You can get a long way with economy picking, but it's good to practice alternate picking too.... I would say a mix of these approaches is what most good bop players use. The big inspiration for most bop guys is Charlie Parker of course, so it's a great way of developing your chops to imitate a non-guitar instrument.

IMO economy picking is pretty essential to get some of those horn like arpeggios down. Most of the great straight jazz players use what you would call economy picking to some extent or another. (Incidentally I wouldn't count DiMeola or McLaughlin as guitarists with a particularly bop influenced/straight ahead style.)

My advice would be to practice scales and arpeggios with economy and alternate picking for 5-15 minutes a day, and then quickly work on learning lines and bop heads and see what works out easiest right hand wise. Try a few different fingerings and so on to see what sits well. Focus on maximum musical results, minimum effort.

Thinking about technique too much is a mistake IMO, unless you really struggle playing anything fast at all... If hear what you are going to play clearly, it's amazing what your body will do to accommodate it.

The main thing is for me, the great jazz guys all play musical lines and ideas, not mere scales or arpeggios. You can work on scales and arps as a way of developing your technique and command of the instrument, but in most styles of jazz, you need to develop the capacity to play melodic lines through changes. There are many ways to do this....

[dasein]

It's not just a soul vs. chops thing, either, because Stevie Ray Vaughan was using a completely different set of techniques than someone like Gambale.

If you watch video of SRV, you'll see that a big part of his sound was that he was excellent at muting strings. Even many times when he plays single notes, he's "raking" a lot of extra strings with the pick (sometimes even all six strings). It helps add a rhythmic, percussive bite to his playing. Wes Montgomery does it as well, if a bit more subtly.

"Soul vs. chops" is a false dichotomy. Players that get held up as standard-bearers of "soulful" playing usually have a great deal of technique. It's unbelievably difficult to play like BB King or Johnny Hodges; speed has nothing to do with it.

Likewise, technical mastery certainly didn't stop Bird, Bud, Trane, and countless others from making intensely emotional music. Does anyone really think your average bar-room blues band has more soul than "A Love Supreme"?

So: what techniques would you recommend for Bebop and what makes for good ear training??

Didn't you say in another thread you don't listen to jazz? Listening to a whole bunch of bebop would be a good first step.

[jzucker]

Yeah, frank is horrible. Even chick corea thinks so.

[christianm77]

Yeah, frank is horrible. Even chick corea thinks so.

Man how does he make sweeping sound so even and in time? Every time you hear him it's a masterclass... It's good to know it can be done haha....

TBH I'm not crazy about his playing, it doesn't touch me like other players in the genre - Scott Henderson, John Scofield and Mike Stern for example - but I have to tip my hat to him.

BTW Roscoe - have you checked out Henderson, Sco and Stern? Might be more your type of thing if you are a blues guy....

I like Gambale best when he has a bluesy, Claptonesque sound... The way he played in that band with Brian Auger, Cobham (Novecento) was fantastic...

[mr. beaumont]

SRV's Little Wing is about 9 minutes too long. I loathe it.

Give me some Frank

OP, technique is only part of it. If you're going to play jazz you have to start listening to jazz.

[jzucker]

i love SRV but comparing him to Gambale is like comparing like comparing a strat to a 175

[Roscoe T. Claude]

dasein, thank you for your differing yet polite response: too few people know how to do that nowadays---
As far as barroom blues band having more soul than A Love Supreme, I've actually seen it both ways...
I won't say "more" because I don't want to compare them that way, but yes I've seen a blues band
that had every bit as much, though I must say they were not average. You can definitely have chops
and soul: to give a classic example look at Lynyrd Skynyrd--they played some harder edged rock like
That Smell and Cry For The Bad Man and sometimes played fast licks like on the Freebird solo but they
had Serious soul. A jazzier example would be The Allman Brothers. Not a fave of mine like Skynyrd but
Duane, Dickey and Warren had a lot of chops and soul, think of the classic Melissa and the more recent
Soulshine ("...it's better than sunshine, it's better than moonshine damn sure better than rain..." yeah
I like that one!) I definitely wasn't saying that the slow stuff is necessarily easy to play: Stevie Ray played
with 13's and would bend notes up three and a half steps sometimes, and yes I imagine he popped a
string or two. I know I'm not addressing everything but this is all I have right now, so a good day to all--

[Roscoe T. Claude]

mr. beaumont, for me, Hendrix's Little Wing and Stevie Ray's are just the right length--they leave me wanting more--so they never get old. And I'm not going to start listening to a lot of jazz because I'm not going to play jazz: I'm sticking with what m-o-v-e-s me--Rockabilly, Rock, Metal and Blues. Don't everybody jump in the pool at once, I am not saying there's anything wrong with being a bebop king or queen...I just mean I have given it an honest try and while I don't write anything off forever it's not for me right now---I want "to bend the Damn guitar strings boy!" and most of all write music that satisfies my soul. Thank you all for your comments and bop on---

[mr. beaumont]

Ah, well I think that's the right decision. Life is way too short to spend it playing music you don't actually like.

How old are you anyway? You might be surprised how things change...and how they stay the same...at 16 I was in a band that covered Megadeth tunes...a few years later I was copping grant green licks.

Although yesterday in the car, I was blasting some Deafhaven.

As for SRV, different strokes. He's a great player, just does nothing for me. In general, I like as little "classic rock" in my blues as possible.

[Roscoe T. Claude]

I understand mr. beaumont. For me at 16 it was Pantera, but I started out years before with Hank Williams Jr. and of course Skynyrd. I feel Stevie's playing in my bones when I hear it, but I can see how if you don't like the "rocking blues" he wouldn't be your "thang." ZZ Top are also Texas rockers and I love their old and new stuff: went to one of their concerts and they sounded awesome but I couldn't see worth a s--- because I'm in a wheelchair: I do about all my playing inclined in a hospital type bed: same as sitting in a chair for the most part. I know I'm making the right decision because I write the kinds of music I have named and I have a feeling that will always be the heart and soul of my playing. I appreciate the remarks, this is me, over and out...

[ghoststrat]

Man how does he make sweeping sound so even and in time? Every time you hear him it's a masterclass... It's good to know it can be done haha....

TBH I'm not crazy about his playing, it doesn't touch me like other players in the genre - Scott Henderson, John Scofield and Mike Stern for example - but I have to tip my hat to him.

BTW Roscoe - have you checked out Henderson, Sco and Stern? Might be more your type of thing if you are a blues guy....

I like Gambale best when he has a bluesy, Claptonesque sound... The way he played in that band with Brian Auger, Cobham (Novecento) was fantastic...

I feel the same way. The one thing that has impressed me about FG's playing over the years is his ability to play written music perfectly​. Impossible stuff, but he nails it.

[jzucker]

Does anyone really think your average bar-room blues band has more soul than "A Love Supreme"?

Nobody with ears.

[christianm77]

I understand mr. beaumont. For me at 16 it was Pantera, but I started out years before with Hank Williams Jr. and of course Skynyrd. I feel Stevie's playing in my bones when I hear it, but I can see how if you don't like the "rocking blues" he wouldn't be your "thang." ZZ Top are also Texas rockers and I love their old and new stuff: went to one of their concerts and they sounded awesome but I couldn't see worth a s--- because I'm in a wheelchair: I do about all my playing inclined in a hospital type bed: same as sitting in a chair for the most part. I know I'm making the right decision because I write the kinds of music I have named and I have a feeling that will always be the heart and soul of my playing. I appreciate the remarks, this is me, over and out...

The you mustn't feel like you are missing out or somehow not doing the right thing by not studying jazz. TBH a passion jazz is a bit of a curse in many ways haha...

[Roscoe T. Claude]

Believe it or not I've spent a long time studying Frank's videos and books---Now I strive to play not Frank's slick jazz fusion but down and dirty rockabilly and blues on Ashley, my big white Gretsch. I know this is a jazz forum and the link below concerns Pantera fans (I'm a big one...) but I think Phil hits the nail on the head when it comes to soul. As he tells us "I'm from New Orleans Jack..." and where you come from is vitally important to the way you play music. The rest is just who you are inside and how your brain and body are wired. I just feel like I have to expose myself to a style if it looks to be something I would like or could use. My friend Ashley S. (the Gretsch is mostly named after her) has thought about playing guitar but says her hands are too small and she doesn't want to practice---the former has been overcome many times and is not a problem, the latter however is a different animal, the kind that eats up your guitar dreams. My point is unless she throws herself in and tries it she'll never know if she would like to practice it or not. I'm 33 and she's 35, not too old at all, but she lives in NC or I would get her started on one my guitars. A good example of technique and soul: One of my rockabilly idols Brian Setzer. He plays his ass off and has a lot of fun doing it. Watch the videos Rock This Town and Jump Jive and Wail--pure energy such great music. This is probably my last post but you guys bop on and thanks for the discussion. Jon