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I was previously holding the pick between the thumb and the tip of my finger. I changed it so that I'm holding it between the thumb and the side of the index finger. It allows for a lot more power and accuracy because the pick doesn't wiggle around.
The only down side is that it's a tad less expressive. I'll demonstrate this in an upcoming video.
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Last edited by jzucker; 08-09-2015 at 08:29 PM.
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08-09-2015 07:53 PM
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I approve that grip.
It won't be less expressive once you forget how you're holding your pick. The wiggling pick may give you unexpected expressiveness, but the stable pick will allow you to express whatever impulse comes whenever it comes. I hope you get used to it and like it. If not go back. God knows I would hate to change pick grips after 49 years of playing (40 for you). As far as I know, I've only ever had but the one. It's something I've never thought about. The only thing I have ever messed with is the thickness of the pick, never the grip.Last edited by kenbennett; 08-09-2015 at 08:06 PM.
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i think having the pick rigid without moving is less expressive even when you get used to it. Having it wiggle a bit gives you a built in shock absorber. It's almost impossible with the old grip to slap the string so hard that it buzzes out where with the new group it's very easy for that to happen.
Additionally, having the pick move slightly gives you some bounce to your swing lines that can't be duplicated with the more rigid grip. However, I'm hoping overall that there are more pros than cons. So far, it's very enjoyable to do string skipping things which I haven't been able to play well since before my spinal injury....
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I've been using your new style of holding the pick since the very forst day I started playing guitar back in the mid '70s. I think kenbennett is correct. Once you start to get comfortable with this new grip, you'll begin to find it more versatile . . . which will lend itself to more expressive. You can also loosen up on the grip, holding the pick much more lightly without fear of having it fall from your grip. I also find that I can rotate it enough to completely reverse the angle of attack .. giving me more of a Benson-esque attack tone when I want it .. . (which really isn't to often). But, I guess you could also do that with your former grip.?
I've got to pull up a few of your videos to see if I can hone in on your former grip.
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I've been using the "new" one for years, basically since I got serious about the guitar. I find it works particularly well for upstrokes, relative to the other technique.
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Hey Jack, I didn't know about your spinal injury. What happened there?
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interesting, I've always held a pick that way and never gave it a second thought. not sure if that counts for much since I've only been playing about 13 years and am not even half the player you are!
edit to clarify: I've always held it the new way
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ruptured disc and 2 herniated discs followed by spinal fusion surgery in the neck. ~30% permanent loss of strength in the right bicep and forearm which effects my picking.
Originally Posted by kenbennett
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Sorry to hear about your injury, Jack. Your "new" pick grip is the same as the one Howard Roberts recommended back in the '70s. Also, most of the guitarists I've met since the G.I.T. days say it is the most relaxed approach for using a pick.
wiz
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Your new grip is the way I was taught to hold a pick 35 years ago. I've been trying all kinds of different techniques ever since but keep coming back to it. I hate to say it but your old technique is probably better. I can't play nearly as fast or accurate as you can with the "new" grip.
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I'm working on that grip, myself, but I find it creates tension. I'll give it a couple more months to see if it becomes more natural.
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Hmmm...interesting. I found the opposite result when I moved to this grip. It should just sit there and your fingers (index/thumb) provide the support. I did find that I had to go on quite a pick safari to find the pick that fit my fingers/distance from strings/provided the rigidity I needed, but once I did, well that was about 4 years ago and I have no pick GAS at all. Originally Posted by zigzag
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I find better the pick stays in place better if you alter the second pic so that you are using the side of the index and the tip of the thumb. Sorry to hear about your injury Jack.
Last edited by whiskey02; 08-11-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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I'm anxious to see a demo, I've always considered your grip and technique
to be superior, that's based on the way your lines explode of the guitar.
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Wow! This is the great grip. I will follow it.
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i'm back to the old way. Willing to sacrifice the raw power for feel which I believe is better with the old grip. I still will occasionally use the new grip as a variation though but in general I don't like the tone as much.
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I hold the pick with three fingertips
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As some one who used forearm technique for the past 5 years, I can tell you (from what I've studied, not an expert) that you shouldn't feel any wrist pain at all. I feel tennis elbow coming in cause of the Bruno elbow technique. Any pain should be a HUGE red flag with your technique. If it hurts, there is something wrong. Or it could be from your previous technique.
To respond to the back and forth with Mr. Zucker and MatsP. I see where both are coming from. MatsP is excited about discovering Bruno's technique (please watch your elbow for pain) and Mr. Zucker is one of the master technicians on this forum. When I get excited about something musically, I tell everyone that they SHOULD try it (look at all my ear training posts). But Zucker has studied the techniques of many, many, many guitarists. He's our version of Troy Grady over here. MatsP, I would buy his book to see where he is coming from. Everyone I speak to says that it is an extension of the Art of Picking.
There, I said my peace. Music, love, and happy snaps.Last edited by Irez87; 09-10-2015 at 09:15 PM.
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Hmmm... This is an interesting (read complicated and counterintuitive) subject.
I started learning rest stroke picking because I wanted to get loads of projection on acoustic guitar. Speed per se was less important.
I started off by using a firm traditional grip, but over time received advice that what I actually wanted was a looser grip. So the pick ends up being in a position more like photo 1. An example given was Stochello Rosenberg who holds the pick so loosely it is almost falling out of his hand.
Over time my grip has got a lot looser. At the moment I advise students to concentrate on looseness in the forearm, wrist and hand and concentrate on using only gravity and arm weight to make a downstroke - and it really is the downstroke where the main bulk of practice needs to be concentrated. My teaching is generally geared towards the player abandoning the feeling of control, because the right arm positioning and the rest stroke itself gives you all the control you need. Quite counterintuitive at first.
It seems to work, and this is what I have focussed on personally for my own technique. It allows the guitarist to project, play quickly (although only for certain figures) and play for long periods without fatigue.
On electric I actually find myself wanting a firmer grip, far more similar to photo 2, but the reason is not because of projection, in fact, quite the opposite. I feel the need for more alternate picking (for evenness.) I still favour downward pick-slanting, but in this case the picking comes more from muscular movement in the forearm and wrist and I need to be able to mute the strings with my right hand.
I kind of feel Benson picking might be good for both though.
EDIT: I just feel I should point out that AFAIK most gypsy pickers tend to lock up their grip and forearm when they need to do something very 'alternatey' - such as a tremolo or one of those two finger chromatic runs. I know I do.Last edited by christianm77; 09-11-2015 at 01:35 PM.
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i have always used the "new" grip. my tone is fine, in fact i get compliments about it. i've never had any problems with this grip and have always considered it to be the "standard". somebody must have brainwashed me a long time ago.
what i have to watch with my tone is when i play too close to the bridge because of palm heel anchoring. the tone gets thin and cold back there (not as.... "creamy", as Mr Beaumont prefers to say) so i occasionally need to migrate my hand forward a little bit.
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I think it pretty much is the 'standard' for e guitar, but I see more and more players adopting a Benson grip. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Picking over the neck pickup seems to be an ideal positioning for a fat jazz tone. You can't palm mute up there, but you can still use right hand muting to take care of issues with string noise.
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I've been really conscious of what screwed up my hand and I think I found something. I am playing with an oud player tomorrow (maybe) and I looked at oud playing to get my ear in the right place. I found something interesting. Oud players use the same floating technique....
That's not the tidbit, it's where they rest their arm on the "bout" of the instrument. It seems as if they rest their arm as far back on the bout as they can...
Why is this interesting...
Well, many of us enjoy that upward pick slant when we pick (yes?)
I found that that position of the hand, with the thumb flattened against the index and tilted upward creates tension on my lower forearm.
Now if you tilt the guitar (like zucker and many others do) at an angle and bring your arm back and lower it as far as it can go (comfortably)...
Viola, you get the upward slant without having to flatten your thumb and tense your lower forearm. I will take pictures in a bit. Anything to avoid injury, right? Not playing the guitar ever again is a personal hell for me, that's a fact
The problem is that most of your arm ends up on the top of the guitar (muffling the sound)....
... Yet another reason why I need an armrest for my baby
BTW, this also makes trems a lot easier to execute without tension. That's why they do it... (Eureka Moment?)Last edited by Irez87; 09-16-2015 at 06:45 PM.
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not brandon terzic by any chance is it?? Originally Posted by Irez87
it is a small world, so i feel compelled to ask
cheers
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Nope. Actually, it's a guy who works at a deli right by the school that I teach at. I brought the guys some home made humus and eggplant, and we started talking. The guy who makes us salad played classical oud back home. I'll try to record us playing together if we make it work (though it will certainy kill my elbow with all that trem)
Food, and music... what else is so universal that you don't need to speak the same language to enjoy it? Art? Mathematics?Last edited by Irez87; 09-16-2015 at 08:38 PM.
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doesn't make any difference through an amp IMO. I've recorded it with my arm totally floating and not. Originally Posted by Irez87
NO DIFFERENCE!
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