The Day the Note died! - lack of sustain workarounds (Eastman AR503CE)

[md54]

Don't change your guitar.

Lighter gauge wire wound will increase sustain. Oddly, heavy strings act more like a rod of steel and sustain less, try 11 top. Flat wounds are also short on sustain.

[DanielleOM]

Although I have seen and handled a few 175s, I can't say that I have ever spend enough time with one to say that I have really tried one. I do have Eastman AR371CE here, but find I like the AR503CE better. I find I like the longer 25" scale length better especially when playing chord melody higher up the neck. Although I suspect you can get used to anything. I did play the AR371CE almost exclusively for a year before getting the AR503CE. I find I get a little conflicted when it comes to body depth. I like the thinner body when playing while standing. While sitting I think I prefer the deeper 3" body.

[DanielleOM]

Don't change your guitar.

Lighter gauge wire wound will increase sustain. Oddly, heavy strings act more like a rod of steel and sustain less, try 11 top. Flat wounds are also short on sustain.

11s would be a change for me. I always thought they sounded rather thin.

I think have a bias from playing flattop guitars exclusively for quite a few years. They don't get much attention these days. I have experimented a few times with 11s, but always came back to 12s on small body flattops. I still think a Martin Dreadnought needs a 13 on top to really sound good.

[DanielleOM]

I spend 3 hours yesterday, with my bass player, in her studio, where we experimented with my sound. I think she managed to increase my sustain a little.

I used my K&K belt preamp and went directly into the Motu that will be used live for two events this weekend. We will see how that works. We will be using some of the effects in the Motu, but she also plans on using the Blue Dynamix multiband compressor that will be running in a laptop.

At one point she had the signal level after the Motu gain control displayed. I noted that signal seemed to drop off when I moved from chordal stuff to single notes. After seeing that I am thinking maybe I should get some kind of simple clean buffer - boost pedal, where I can boost my signal for single note solos. She says she really lays back on the bass when I do single note style solos.

Danielle

[jzucker]

a 175 is totally different than an ar-371. You should try one. Look for an late '80s model with mahogany back/sides. I think you'll find it much more mellow and with better sustain than the eastman

[DanielleOM]

a 175 is totally different than an ar-371. You should try one. Look for an late '80s model with mahogany back/sides. I think you'll find it much more mellow and with better sustain than the eastman

Maybe I would, I must admit I have a real fondness for flattops with mahogany necks, back and sides.

This reminds me that Eastman has made guitars with mahogany back and sides. Can't recall what they used for neck material on those guitars.


Danielle

[jzucker]

i'd try stepping away from eastman for once. Their prices are seductive but I really think what you might be looking for is something only a gibson can offer.

[DanielleOM]

a 175 is totally different than an ar-371. You should try one. Look for an late '80s model with mahogany back/sides. I think you'll find it much more mellow and with better sustain than the eastman

Here's an Eastman model with mahogany back and sides. (Mahogany neck)
Archtops John Pisano AR680CE ? Eastman Guitars

Soundpure demo comparing mahogany and maple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=qu-2Xa_djhI

Danielle

[Stevebol]

If your guitar has a wood bridge have you considered trying a metal one?

[VanDan]

There are lot's of thing s to try from a guitar point of view rather than guitar technique:

Raise the pickup (check if it's any good, you might also just replace it?)

Use a compressor pedal

Try combinantions of high gain / low master volume or the other way around

Reverb/Delay

This is all depending on your taste and the gear that you use so you probably just have to experiment..

Jens

Wouldn't raising the pickup actually decrease sustain? I believe that would intensify the magnetic pull on the strings and hence, deaden them sooner.

[mikeSF]

hope you are getting a handle on what you want.
All things being equal, the more material (ie wood) under the bridge, the longer the sustain. A guitar made from solid metal or concrete(theoretically speaking) will sustain better than a semi-hollow, and better than a fully hollow, etc. The design of your AR503 really favors more volume and acoustic punch with a tradeoff of sustain.

I have a wonderful chambered solid guitar that has amazing sustain, but it is often too much for my liking, as i like my chords to decay faster for a cleaner sound. but for line work, it is very nice.

I went to a Mark Whitfield gig once and he was playing his usual L5. I got the impression he was dealing with a gear issue that night, as whenever he needed to sustain a long note, it died too fast, so he played a series of quarter notes to fill in the dead air. Whole notes were replaced by 4 quarters, etc...i found it incredibly distracting. Nevertheless, that is one way to get through "In A Sentimental Mood", lol.

[JensL]

Wouldn't raising the pickup actually decrease sustain? I believe that would intensify the magnetic pull on the strings and hence, deaden them sooner.

That depends on the strings and the magnets in the pickups etc. of course, but usually with PAF humbuckers you can go very close and only get more output and sustain.

Jens

[DanielleOM]

We played two events over the weekend. I think we managed to achieve what I was looking for.

I suspect it was the string change, and the use of the compressor (in moderation), that got me what I was looking for. It seemed we were able to increase the sustain a little longer without killing the dynamics that you would expect from an archtop guitar.

This was done with the Blue Cat Dynamix multiband Compressor. However I suspect other less complex compressors might have gotten the job done.


Danielle

[DanielleOM]

Mike,

Interesting comment about the guitar's sustain. I don't think I would want to go to a traditional ES335 style semi hollow. Although I don't recall model numbers, I do think I could be tempted by a guitar with just a small block under the bridge. I will certainly try one in a store if I happen to come across one. I don't think I will aggressively pursue this as I do like the guitar I have, and I don't think I want to start bringing more than one guitar to an event.

Danielle

[christianm77]

If you got to F-holes get a 335. Or a 175, whatever.... Or a telecaster with a neck humbucker, if budget won't stretch. You can always get a thinline or paint on some f-holes ;-)

The Eastman 371 is a nice guitar, but yes it is a different animal from a 175, a super exact and tidy sounding electric jazz guitar. The 371 is surprisingly punchy as an acoustic instrument.

That said, Jim Mullen plays an Aria Pro floating pickup laminate archtop (worth about 500USD) through an AER compact 60 (!) with his thumb (important point) and 3 fingers and he has more sustain then almost any other straight-ahead player I've heard...

[JensL]

We played two events over the weekend. I think we managed to achieve what I was looking for.

I suspect it was the string change, and the use of the compressor (in moderation), that got me what I was looking for. It seemed we were able to increase the sustain a little longer without killing the dynamics that you would expect from an archtop guitar.

This was done with the Blue Cat Dynamix multiband Compressor. However I suspect other less complex compressors might have gotten the job done.


Danielle

Great that you got it to work the way you wanted!

Jens

[pingu]

If you got to F-holes get a 335. Or a 175, whatever.... Or a telecaster with a neck humbucker, if budget won't stretch. You can always get a thinline or paint on some f-holes ;-)

The Eastman 371 is a nice guitar, but yes it is a different animal from a 175, a super exact and tidy sounding electric jazz guitar. The 371 is surprisingly punchy as an acoustic instrument.

That said, Jim Mullen plays an Aria Pro floating pickup laminate archtop (worth about 500USD) through an AER compact 60 (!) with his thumb (important point) and 3 fingers and he has more sustain then almost any other straight-ahead player I've heard...

yes jim mullen does the slow vib thing
a fair bit on the last note of a phrase
... i think that sustains the note ...

i've noticed i've started to do it a bit too

[pingu]

Mike,

Interesting comment about the guitar's sustain. I don't think I would want to go to a traditional ES335 style semi hollow. Although I don't recall model numbers, I do think I could be tempted by a guitar with just a small block under the bridge. I will certainly try one in a store if I happen to come across one. I don't think I will aggressively pursue this as I do like the guitar I have, and I don't think I want to start bringing more than one guitar to an event.

Danielle

i had the opposite problem Danielle ...

i wanted to de-sustain and de-brighten the sound of my laminate jazz box a bit

I stuffed the left hand side half of the guitar with foam ...
it did the trick , some of the string energy gets absorbed by the foam (sound proofing)

but that is the opposite of what you want

for max sustain, you need to go in the direction
Les Paul experimented with ... with the log guitar and the steel rail experiments etc

ie , you need stiff , dense body that won't
absorb any of the stings energy

much like a solid guitar in fact

[pingu]

putting a wooden block
under the bridge , so the bridge
isn't floating anymore , will up
the sustain ....

it will take the guitar in the direction
of a semi solid guitar ...

Aria herb Ellis is built like this

ps it will be quieter acoustically too
pps it will be less liable to body feedback

[christianm77]

yes jim mullen does the slow vib thing
a fair bit on the last note of a phrase
... i think that sustains the note ...

i've noticed i've started to do it a bit too

Snap. I really like the sound it gives.

Peter Bernstein does it too.

[christianm77]

i had the opposite problem Danielle ...

i wanted to de-sustain and de-brighten the sound of my laminate jazz box a bit

I stuffed the left hand side half of the guitar with foam ...
it did the trick , some of the string energy gets absorbed by the foam (sound proofing)

If you notice, Jim Mullen has put something in his F-Holes.

TBH I don't know why electric jazz players bother with real archtops. Like you say Les Paul had this figured out years ago.

Archtops look good though, don't they? ;-)

[pingu]

[QUOTE]

If you notice, Jim Mullen has put something in his F-Holes.

Dougs plugs to stop body feedback

TBH I don't know why electric jazz players bother with real archtops. Like you say Les Paul had this figured out years ago.

I actually like the quick decay thing of a Jazz box (like a stand-up bass) kinda
also you get more bass/authority off a hollow body
and single notes sound more valid

Archtops look good though, don't they? ;-)

Yes I like the look of a jazz box ,
looks/sounds like a proper guitar to me

all those solid guitars go ding ding ding
or fuzzzzzz , me no likey