Instrument Height

**KLR** · 05-11-2015, 03:58 PM

Recently I discovered I have to have the guitar sitting down low to pick fast, which is something I've never seen covered in any string instrument tutor, really. Wish I'd known about that years ago, I seem to have nerves in my arms that bunch up easily and create tension, holding stringed instruments down lower really helps. It might be of use to some to try holding the guitar down low, using a shoulder strap if necessary, even when sitting. Putting weight on my shoulders can aggravate nerves in my neck too so I run the shoulder strap around my waist, which works just fine on my jazz box. The upper bout sits against my left leg.

This doesn't seem to have been covered here, but it seems to be a big topic at shredding forums, not that I'm into thrash metal but I'll look for tips anywhere. Probably they don't think much about holding guitars at different heights, so long as it works, owing to how they never ever ever sit down to play, as that's wimpy or pretentious or whatever...

**whiskey02** · 05-12-2015, 07:02 AM

Seriously now, I get how your muscles could be stressed by having your guitar very high, causing your shoulders to hunch up & muscle tension. That would be bad of course; anything that causes "tension" is to be avoided. I can't imagine how contorted you'd have to be to tangle up nerves. You should be able to go this high without issue. The good news is that you are (finally) in tune with what your body is telling you. You have discovered a problem, now you can eliminate it. Good luck.

**Pocket Player** · 05-12-2015, 10:07 AM

I myself deal with neck pain and soreness a lot. due to lots of practice. i never had this issue, until i started practicing 2 or more hours a day,and changing my guitar position much higher. Now i expect to be sore !! after all, if i went to the gym for 2 hours id be sore... this is no different. the guitar is a physically demanding instrument, and the woodshed is a gym. Good technique ! and posture is a must. or id be in badddd shape from all this practice. and i still hurt ... Do any of you feel sore... from your guitar workouts? Now i do play a ton of pentatonic's ...any hand position you can make work will work !! but when you play 3 and 4 note per string scales, That thumb Really need's to be at the back of the guitar neck !!!,for good hand position and technique. The thumb over the top really kills speed and progress,at the higher level's of playing. it becomes a trade off... lol but the lower that guitar goes the higher the thumb comes up. and the sloppier it gets. just my 2 cents.
p.s i now start practice. with a good pre workout type stretching, back,neck,shoulders, HANDS makes a big difference.

**DanielleOM** · 05-12-2015, 10:46 AM

I find I have to avoid looking at the fretboard when I play at least to the extent that I find possible. I really try to avoid looking as much as possible. Neck and shoulder joint stretching mobility exercises help me.

I find I also have to avoid food and beverages that cause inflammation.

I think my sitting position is odd in that I keep my left leg over the right, with left foot on a foot stool. I find this helps to get the guitar in front of me somewhat similar to a classical position. I use a 16" archtop and keep the neck at approximately 45 degrees.

Danielle

**Pocket Player** · 05-12-2015, 11:47 AM

I Know exactly !!! what your saying lol lol

Its looking down at the neck !!! that's causing most of the pain. then after your sore ,all the other muscles start to compensate and then get ! just as bad... same with the crossing of the leg...its the best position to get on top of guitar. lol But i dont use classical position(footstool) i'm going to start practicing standing more i think. But ! I just really don't find the same joy in my practice routine,while standing. My best friend only practices standing ! and isn't experiencing any of the same problems. Now he plays on stage,so needs to be able to execute every lick standing,and moving around. I don't play live or for people. so i just sit all the time.. and play. never thought more about it... But maybe there's something to this.... we both practice many hours,and even the same material most of the time,as we push each other musically and are great friends ! , But im hurting ! most of the time. he is not.

Who else if feeling this pain ? and is looking down at the fret board,the root of this !!. Hands aside from the conversation. anyone who practice's week to week 8 to 40+ hour on the guitar knows how important good hand position is... But how's your neck and back feeling?

**KLR** · 05-12-2015, 02:01 PM

Yeah, Jimmy Page, or Slash from Guns and Roses seem to be the poster children for having the guitar down around the knees, damn near. Doesn't seem to slow them down though. I don't know why I'm in the same boat or getting there, I don't ask questions. My father was incapable of rotating his arms - he could only make it about 50 degrees. The massive muscles he had from farm work might have been a factor, although the last half of his life was a lot more sedentary. Or perhaps this was a genetic issue, like the ability or lack thereof of rolling your tongue - which I was just reading about, and apparently genetics isn't the whole story there, so...anyway I can definitely move that pick faster with the guitar down a bit, and wonder if this factor isn't inherited in some way. Position is perhaps like tailoring clothing; we all have different arm lengths, and can't buy the same shirts with the same sleeve lengths, instruments should operate under a similar principle, with a few more variables thrown in too of course.

**fumblefingers** · 05-13-2015, 10:12 PM

not so fast (so to speak).

i've seen Slash (fake name of course) pull his guitar up for a tough passage then let it go back down.

make no mistake, holding a low slung guitar down near your balls is all for show. it's about aaaaattitude, not ergonomics.

**fumblefingers** · 05-13-2015, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Pocket Player

I myself deal with neck pain and soreness a lot. due to lots of practice. i never had this issue, until i started practicing 2 or more hours a day,and changing my guitar position much higher. Now i expect to be sore !! after all, if i went to the gym for 2 hours id be sore... this is no different. the guitar is a physically demanding instrument, and the woodshed is a gym. Good technique ! and posture is a must. or id be in badddd shape from all this practice. and i still hurt ... Do any of you feel sore... from your guitar workouts? Now i do play a ton of pentatonic's ...any hand position you can make work will work !! but when you play 3 and 4 note per string scales, That thumb Really need's to be at the back of the guitar neck !!!,for good hand position and technique. The thumb over the top really kills speed and progress,at the higher level's of playing. it becomes a trade off... lol but the lower that guitar goes the higher the thumb comes up. and the sloppier it gets. just my 2 cents.
p.s i now start practice. with a good pre workout type stretching, back,neck,shoulders, HANDS makes a big difference.

well i know what you mean with the analogy, but it is different. repetitive stress injuries end some music careers.

you can do the gym wrong too, of course, and end your sports or gym "career".

**Pocket Player** · 05-14-2015, 12:38 AM

agreed !!!low guitar= baddd... i do most of my playing with 1 leg crossed sitting in front of the computer. fairly high strap on,or just normal on my knee ...i feel like my technique's fine ! just lots of hours. and right now i have a lot of repetitive stuff in my routine , I'm careful to do lots of stretching and manage myself as im not 20 anymore

but i have some sort of soreness most of the time, guitar related

**ColMc** · 05-14-2015, 07:27 AM

When learning a new tune which had an Ab7#9 from the 4th fret, my teacher told me to bring the guitar neck almost touching my nose( bit of an exaggeration but...) in order to keep the wrist as straight as possible.
The reasoning being that its those right angle wrist bends that do the damage to the tendon sheaths.
So I can't see how wearing a guitar so low can be any good in the long term.
IMO.

**m_d** · 05-14-2015, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by KLR

Yeah, Jimmy Page, or Slash from Guns and Roses seem to be the poster children for having the guitar down around the knees, damn near. Doesn't seem to slow them down though. I don't know why I'm in the same boat or getting there, I don't ask questions. My father was incapable of rotating his arms - he could only make it about 50 degrees. The massive muscles he had from farm work might have been a factor, although the last half of his life was a lot more sedentary. Or perhaps this was a genetic issue, like the ability or lack thereof of rolling your tongue - which I was just reading about, and apparently genetics isn't the whole story there, so...anyway I can definitely move that pick faster with the guitar down a bit, and wonder if this factor isn't inherited in some way. Position is perhaps like tailoring clothing; we all have different arm lengths, and can't buy the same shirts with the same sleeve lengths, instruments should operate under a similar principle, with a few more variables thrown in too of course.

Page wasn't really fast as he was stoned most of the time... To be honest I can't stand his music.

**Frethack** · 05-14-2015, 05:30 PM

WWYD? What would Yngwie do?

I have to hike it up to play anything accurate and quick.

**christianm77** · 05-14-2015, 06:08 PM

I use a silly little cushion to raise my guitar up, or those stick on supports that you can attach to your guitar. Classical footstools twist your spine so I don't like them....

**thetruewheel** · 08-19-2015, 08:17 PM

Be very careful about playing with poor posture and tension. Pain is NOT normal!! You should not feel pain when playing, even for long periods of time.

I've taken a hiatus from playing, after 2 years of heavy practice (2-3 hours a day) with tense shoulders, arms, etc. I realized something was wrong when I couldn't play in classical position (i.e. on a stool with no back) for longer than 10 minutes without intense pain.

I want to do a longer write-up on this at some point, but I tried so many things to fix my posture. Not just guitar, but posture in general - I spend a lot of time sitting at the computer, and needed to completely reconfigure how I stand and sit. I found this book incredibly helpful for recalibrating my body: http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revo...887/ref=sr_1_1. And, of course, Jamie Andreas for helping me reset my technique from scratch without tension: http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Cor...325/ref=sr_1_1

Feel free to ask me questions, this topic is near and dear to my heart!

**Cunamara** · 08-20-2015, 07:57 PM

I can play 2-4 hours a day without arm/hand pain, other than my fingertips eventually getting a little sensitive. If I slouch I will get low back pain, upper back pain and/or neck pain. I tend to slouch (being 6'3" might have something to do with that). A proper height chair and a 17" guitar reduce this habit. I tend to slouch more with my Tele and using a strap helps with that.

Also- if I am playing familiar tunes I have less trouble. When I am learning a new tune from a chart or some other new material, I seem to be more tense and end up with discomfort.

**MaxTwang** · 08-23-2015, 03:08 AM

I used to use classical body position but that twists the back. Straps with a heavy guitar were causing neck problems. Lately I've been using a Dynarette cushion and moved up to a 17" guitar. The small Dynarette is enough to get the guitar in a comfortable position. I also uses a height adjustable stool w/o arms for practice (like the kind a doctor rolls around on in an exam). A chair w/ arms makes it tough to get the guitar in the right position.