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Yeah. Lately I worked pretty hard figuring out how to play fast and clean, but yeah it's almost always kinesthetic for me. It never feels like it's something I actually hear, but something under my fingers. Just my 2 cents
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10-12-2015 10:04 AM
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I guess there's lot's of BS talk going on in regard of "hearing", where it actually means "knowing what will work". I tend to beleive in what Steve Vai had to say on subject,
here:
10 Things We Learned from Steve Vai | Premier Guitar
I'll quote No.4: "Improvisation and composition are neighbors in Vai’s solos.
Sometimes when I’m in the studio working on a solo, I break it down and work on one section at a time until something comes out that doesn’t sound like anything I’ve heard or played before. I usually can’t do that on the fly, so I’ll need to meditate on an idea. I then work on that idea until it’s vocabulary becomes second nature to me. So certain solos may be duplicated live very close to the original but there’s always space for pure improv. I enjoy doing both equally."
Maybe some people have doubts about Vai's abilities, I do not.
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when wes or django play fast it never seems like that's the point - even when bud powell does it when it IS the point, its more that it sounds hip than that it sounds fast
maybe dexter or lester are the ultimate examples of this. dexter is a monster's monster - and he always sounds like he's playing slow to me. just unbelievable - its like he's a time-lord and plays the solo in a time world that is a quarter as fast as the one you hear it in.
but the point is i just can't stand the guitarists who are playing for a guitarist audience and do circus-like routines which feature 'fast playing'
i don't mean to offend the man's fans but this is a good example of what i mean.
i thought the martin miller clip above with the guitarist and the electric bass player (who was very chilled out indeed) was fantastic (btw)Last edited by Groyniad; 10-12-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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For me, my ear is my end all be all guide, it helps me wade through the mathematics of the theory. After speaking with other musicians, I've found that it's the same for many of them at all.
For others, the ear doesn't dictate what is played.
Different strokes for different folks. I just said what I am working on, which is hearing faster and in larger chunks of music. Practicing the physical aspects of the instrument are crucial as well and I respect that. But calling something "bullshit" when you haven't quite studied it in the same depth as another who subscribes to it is... not kind, to say the least.
Mark has a great quote at the end of each of his posts. It teaches:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)
I really like philosophy, and that quote really resonates with me. But most of what I will ruminate upon will be the nature of my ear, my musicianship, and how if effects the music that I play on my own and on the bandstand.
Although I love this forum, I think people would have better dialogues in person. Could we have a jazzguitar.be convention one day, maybe?
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I think you're quite new on the forum, so maybe you've missed a thread, or couple, about what one can hear and play. "Hearing in large chunks" is quite the same as "knowing what will work, in not so large chunks, respectively", IMO.
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Not quite. I might be a year into the forum, but I'm not new to the idea of musicianship.
Hearing in larger chunks means hearing larger sections of music in your head and then producing those sounds in your head with 100% accuracy. I love learning licks, from recordings and from Greg Fishman, but I don't want my playing to be entirely lick based. I like basing what I play on what I hear. I use what I know as a reference point, but not as an anchor. The whole point of this is my opinion that, if I were to always play what I always play, I might as well play by myself. Quite honestly, playing by myself feels safer. But I feel like I make more progress and play with more inspiration when I play with other people. They push me to search farther and pull deeper into my musical knowledge.
That comes from a place of me using music as a form of communication, because I am not always the best at talking to people out in public and having the courage to speak my mind. I can do a contrapuntal solo with someone I've never spoken to before where I can converse about all of my woes and throes musically. But, I would never have that same conversation in words because, I don't know that person well enough.
Vlad, I've heard you play, and I really like it. You have your own musical voice. And you don't come across as an egotistical _____ on the thread. You and me might think differently, but that doesn't mean that we can't both create good music. Agreed?
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I said nothing about your musicianship and I was not talking about playing licks.
I was talking about above quoted and, as you can see, we agree on it, which kind of means my "knowing" and your "hearing" are one same thing, as far as I can understand, which was my idea from the begining.
Originally Posted by Irez87
Possible point could be, you had to hear it once, from which point on you know it. There's no force in the world to avoid it, just as there's no force to make you play it alwaays the same (lick), just because you know it (what will work).
I play mostly with my self, but simillar to when I play with other people, as soon as someone makes a notion about liking it, I tend to change it, not from disbelief, but from pure psychopathy, to the point of bandmate's frustration. As far as rehearsals, that is.
On the gig I'll try to stay within a reach of what we've practiced. We want to sound intentionaaly as bad as we aare. We don't waant to sound better than ourselves. Don't we?
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I definitely hear the whole playing what sounds good, but I am really training myself to be okay with mistakes when I play. It's hard, trust me, a lot of people used to bash my playing. Even teachers. Now they listen back and go, "Is that Alex?" (my first name).
Hearing it once, definitely. Not necessarily playing it before, but accessing the part of the mind that head that idea before. I'm playing stuff that I heard in my childhood, like bits an pieces of Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart when I never learned the pieces formally on the guitar. They are just in my tonal memory, it is really interesting.
Sometimes the hearing comes from hearing what the pianist just did and responding to that. Or the drummer. Or the bass player. Or the horn player **hits horn player on the head with guitar** "Stop playing Parker licks at warp speed!"
I play jam session gigs in front of an audience more than I play my own gigs. I am trying to get a band together, but we all have different schedules. Did that more in high school. Life... having a job... and these gigs being really late. Past my weekday bed time
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if you really do hear it - it's always at least okay, usually pretty good
the bad stuff is stuff that hasn't been heard at all
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Sure, some of us can play what we hear, but most of us (if not all) hear what we know....
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If you want to hear melodic, inventive and fresh - whether fast or slow - check out Billy Bean. I've never heard him repeat himself and the guy can truly burn, or back off and play with space.
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+1 on billy bean..highly underrated..his work with john pisano was stellar..pisano the perfect rhythmic foil..just ask joe pass!! who used him for years...this is from a great album featuring three 50's west coast guitar giants...bean, pisano and budimir (don't forget dennis budimir!!! he could burn)
here's bean "thinkin out loud" on the great sonny rollins theme
the pisano/bean albums are available and highly recommended..2 lps on one cd:
cheers
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I LOVE Billy Bean!
What about The TRIO?
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the trio-classic!...gaylor came from paul bleys band...bley was playin with jimmy giuffre by that time..this is all the cutting edge stuff..where players might of worked off themes but left plenty of room for improv...or went free altogether
erez, as u know, giuffre is my #1 improv guy..and on a multitude of instruments...
was just listening to his mid 70's stuff with paul bley and guitarist bill connors...totally improv...at one point giuffre screams out "guitar"..hes calling connors to come to the stage..incredible real time stuff
cheers
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