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One thing to work on when trying to build your speed is to learn licks and phrases, or melodies instead of just scales and arpeggios. Some of the best, and fastest, players I've worked with have always told me they practice ii-V or other licks when working on speed, or they learn Bebop melodies, like Donna Lee, Confirmation etc. That way you are either learning vocabulary or tunes at the same time as working on speed. And it's much more practical, when you're soloing or doing a gig you won't be running scales/arps, but chances are you'll be running changes or playing melodies. So it's like killing two birds with one stone.
My favorite musical analogy comes from a lesson I had with Roddy Ellias on getting faster.
He said:
"Always practice REALLY slow. Practice so slow that you can concentrate on every muscle movement in both hands. Learn to feel what the perfect tone not only sounds like but FEELS like. Try playing Donna Lee at 30 or 40, try doing it half that speed. Being able to play slow is the key to playing fast.
Take babies for instance. You watch a baby work for months on learning the mechanics of crawling and then after much trial and error they learn how to walk. But have you ever seen a baby practice running? No, they just work slowly perfecting the mechanics of walking and then one day they just run!"
MW
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03-02-2008 10:31 AM
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1. Practice with a metronome. It's the only way to truly measure progress. For example, set the metronome to 100 beats per minute (or a speed that is comfortable to you). Start by playing a scale, any scale, with quarter notes from the low E to the high E. Play 3 notes per string and alternate your picking all the way. Then progress to eigth notes, sixteenth and so on. Also, I don't know if you play sitting down, standing up or a combination of the two. But don't forget to practice standing up.
Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
2. Jazz players could definately benefit from listening to the Rock guys. Paul Gilbert is one of the best in the business. If you google his name, you will find plenty of his lessons online. Mainly on YouTube. Yes, the exercises are repetitive, boring and non-musical. He'll even tell you that. But the idea is to build your muscles.
3. Play all the time! I'm lucky because my wife doesn't mind me noodling on the guitar while we're watching TV.
4. Always warm up. Never just start playing as fast as you can. I have a few friends that have tendonites and it sucks. If you've ever lifted weights, I'm sure you started with lighter weight and worked you way up.
5. Stretching helps as well. John Petrucci gives some good stretching exercises on his video. (Another Rock Guy!)
Hope that helps.
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Funny how you talking down on rock guitar players, when if you go look at the rollin stone top 100 musicians they are mostly all rock/blues guitarists.
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Paul Gilbert is very technical but I'm mostly impressed by his picking technique, which is exceptional, likewise with John Petrucci btw. I'd say Guthrie Govan is a bit better in that respect, he's a bit more complete and has sme youtube lessons on alternate picking, sweep picking, legato and tapping. It's not all you need to know, his books have way more exercises. Vinnie Moore and Greg Howe are also a bit more complete techniquewise. If you do listen to more experts on particular areas I'd say :
- Alternate picking: Paul Gilbert, John Petrucci, John Mclaughlin, Al Di Meola.
- Legato/tapping: Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Allan Holdsworth, Greg Howe, Richie Kotzen.
- Sweep picking: Frank Gambale, Yngwie Malmsteen, Jason Becker.
- Fingerstyle: Joe Pass, Tuck Andress. (does anyone know more?)
Also there are some files out on the internet called "shawn baxter's guitar gym". It's a bit like Guthrie Govan's technique book 2, advanced techniques. It covers pretty much every technique there is, but it hs a little more emphasis on the sweep picking than Guthrie's books, plus a few more legato exercises. Legato excersises never hurt since that's the hardest technique to develop IMO. A little warning however; Baxter is not an alternate picker. He solves pretty much anything with sweep picking so you might want to adjust his exercises a bit to get some string crossing going with your pick.
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I know I am not who you were refering to, but the Rolling Stone top 100 is a popularity contest. Rock guys can be really good at their thing, but it is a fairly small box compared to a competent jazz guy. Me, I am trying to be both. Originally Posted by bornfedslaughter
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Blues and rock guys rely heavily on string bends. It's very easy to get emotion and excitement into your playing with string bends and vibrato. In fact, and I base this comment on my experience and opinion alone: string bending is almost a form of cheating. When I started playing jazz, I stopped relying on string bends and man did that unmask me!
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Yea I believe Kurt Cobain is #23 on Rolling Stone's list of the top 100 guitarists ever. Good song writer, and I like Nirvana, but for me that's reason enough to toss the whole list into the garbage can.
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It's like being the smallest guy on the football team. Your not the Biggest, strongest and fastest, but your the smartest. If you know what your doing musically and the notes you play and your phrasing is suberbly played, and you have a well developed ear, being the best musician in the room, but just not the fastest, than your going to be put on top, atleast on my list. Don't worry about speed of playing, spend your time on continuing studying music. Good Luck. Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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yea that's definitely a way to smooth out your playing. that's where the one octave scales come in so you don't have to switch areas of the neck when working on this. I'm wondering though if you meant 8 notes per measure not 8 notes per beat. haha.
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I started out playing jazz thinking if I had good jazz chops I'd be able to play anything.
Not so. I had a country gig a while back and after 20 years of playing and practising jazz I didn't really have a clue as to how to get an authentic, country sound.
I was bored and so, I imagine, was my audience.
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I know this has been said before but,
To Build Speed: use a metronome and scales, both melodic & chromatic all up and down the neck. Use alternate picking first, then master hybrid and sweep. Start slow and work your way up the tempo, but always make sure each note is sounding perfect at each speed and sometimes try setting the tempo a few steps above your comfort zone, then bring it back down and the same exercise will seem easier. Get John Petrucci's instructional DVD if you can.
On Rock & Jazz: Who cares? Music is music. One can't say a genre is harder, easier, better, worse because music is art and it's value is completely subjective to the beholder. For example, a simple two-chord Jazz tune is much easier to write, play or learn than something like one of Dream Theater's 45 minute prog-rock epics would be. The best bet is to learn about as many genres as you can and latch onto whatever makes you feel good and whatever you like to play the most.
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one thing to consider when working on speed in a jazz context is working with Band in the Box or a play a long at fast speeds. Try treating a tune like a scale/arpeggio etc, start improvising really slow on say an F blues at 100 bpm, then after 5 or so choruses raise the speed by ten, and repeat until it in uncomfortable. Try doing this over the course of a week to see if your comfortableness at fast tempos gets better.
For me, in jazz there is a difference between playing fast scales and playing tunes fast. There is a whole other skill set that needs to be worked on in order to apply technique and knowledge in real time at fast tempos. The thought process, and ability to relax and focus, while improvising at up tempos can only be learned by doing it.
So I try to make sure I balance my technical practicing with "real life" application, by practicing improvisation at up tempos.
MW
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For the love of God, man, that's 15 notes per second at 150bpm. Impressive! I can't even tremolo pick that fast.
Okay, I give up. No shredding for me.
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i think to play fast (like django) you must anchor right hand on guitar body and dig in with your pick but angle the pick across the the string not hit it square on; players like django/ benson seem to be very possitive when they strike strings for fast runs hope that helps i need to think more on this topic!
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Hi guys,anchoring generally leads to build-up of tension in your picking hand, resulting in tendonitis/RSI.
just a thought about anchoring.
If you anchor your right hand then the only joints used to move the pick are in the hand and these don't enjoy lateral movement too much. If the hand is not anchored to the guitar but is free to move, then the pick is moved by the elbow (which is perfectly aligned for this movement) and the wrist, which is able to twist with ease. Bit of a no-brainer deciding which to use if you don't want to injure yourself.
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I agree with Finger picker about fingerpicking and I like the sentiment behind "walking in different shoes". We all love music - that's why we're here. There're things a good rock player can do that a good jazz player can't. Sure you need to know a LOT more as a jazz player, but what is this knowledge other than a substitute - extension for what creativity & inspiration flows out of us when we're soloing, mind clear, in the zone....
I'm brand new to this site & loving it. Interesting thread
Originally Posted by fingerpicker
Chrizzia, I think you make a valid point. I would further challenge jazz players to play their favorite tunes in a rock format, or rockers to play in a classical format, or classical players to do some bluegrass, etc.
I get a big kick out of playing AC/DC tunes as a baroque classical guitar solos, or Tequila Sunrise with a bossa nova beat and altered chords.
I think if we would spend a little time walking in different shoes, we might go places we never expected to find. But that's just one person's opinion.
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A better question might be how does one hear fast....and then play it?
It seems to me and from a few reliable jazz educators, that playing fast entails using patterns.
The key to making interesting melodies versus mindless shredding would be to be able to use and change patterns at very fast rate. To me the best improvisation is instant composition.
Many times, even Mclaughlin, when playing fast is not using interesting patterns...and it seem to me to be the same patterns over and over again. Listen to Michael Brecker do this and you'll see the difference. Mike is composing with the patterns.
I don't think there is a better format but once someone becomes more melodically and harmonically sophisticated in their hearing, the simpler stuff like some rock formats are not interesting.
The standards, in my opinion, don't lend themselves to a rock format. You can do anything for practice...but I love Green Dolphin Street as a swing or latin/ swing hybrid. When you funk it up...it starts to sound like smooth jazz...but each to his own.
When I want to play fusion stuff, I write my own tunes...but, also, am not interested in just using a A to G chord.
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Come to think of it....Green Dolphin Street could work with a funk beat on the first 8 measures.
I would disagree with Sitarlo that everyone should play all styles. I don't think there are any rules. I dislike Dream Theater.I don't like that sound or the melodies or harmonies. I'm not saying that they are bad. I listened to them because of the raves about the guitar player.
I just don't like Dream Theater compared to listening to Wes Montgomery or John Coltrane. The feel is different. I do like some of Satriani's work but find him a bit boring melodically after a while.
People should play what they want . As you change...your ears and your life, the music you want to play and listen to, also, changes.
I would go back and listen to the history. Dream theater is based on what Louis Armstrong and Django showed what is possible...as well as all the blues men and women.Last edited by Johnk; 07-08-2008 at 03:57 PM.
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I can't understand all this Rock vs. Jazz music. They are totally different. They use the scales differently, and I say scales in plural because lots of metal players use some scales and not only pentatonic. AC/DC, okay it's just rock and play only pentatonic, other metalers like Manowar during the solos in some songs they make noise with their guitars and that's their purpose, you can't dance with Yngwie's music but he uses lots of scales and he recorded a CD and made a tour with a classical orchestra, Steve Vai and Satriani use lots of scales,too.
I agree that in rock the harmonization is very simple because of the distortion but they can make a ballad sound pretty good with simple major and minor chords, sometimes 7ths, too. Metallica, Yngwie, Scorpions,
Extreme, Europe, Bon Jovi...
They are more popular? Yes, of course! I agree. But take it to the fact that people who don't understand anything about music prefer simple music like disco, R'n'R, remember the Twist's time, and nowadays...House!
In the end, all styles use 12 notes.
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Herbie Hancock doesn't consider his popular rock songs, like Rockit, to be jazz.
On the other hand, I just saw a documentary with Herbie playing on acoustic piano, with Tony Williams and Freddie Hubbard. The song was Canteloupe Island. Although there was a rock back beat, Freddie's solo was pure jazz.
Once, someone has played or listened to enough straight ahead jazz, the impression of what is jazz does change.
Again, for me, it is not that interesting to listen to metal oriented stuff. Modal jazz or fusion can be very good if the player knows how to solo.
Listen to Mike Brecker solo over the funk beat...on his less commercial ventures. He plays great.
I think that people prefer simpler music if they haven't been shown or put the effort into listening.
I brought my wife and a friend to a jazz club and they talked through the solos. They never learned about listening...so they heard it as backround .
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Hi, JohnK!
Yes, I agree with you. I said all that because I know many people who don't know anything about music. Some of them aren't used to listen to music either thought some others do.
But what I mean to say is that commercial music is more popular than jazz, bebop, classical and even these rock/metal guitar heroes who tend to play more accurate music in their musical style.
By commercial music I mean simple music (go to a disco and you'll know what I mean), and good jazz is not simple music.
JohnK, my mother still doesn't understand why I "waste" my time playing music.
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Words of wisdom right there. Originally Posted by Gramps
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Hi, im using this site at the moment to get my speed up, it's helping me really iron out the bad habits in my technique:
Speed Picking : How To Play Guitar Fast
Theres a free demo on there you can to try.
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This is the mantra I try to follow:
1. We are 'shedders, not shredders.
2. Speed is a function of accuracy, and accuracy is best developed by playing a passage as SLOWLY as possible.
Books? Try "Sheets of Sound For Guitar", a massive book with hundreds of exercises by jack zucker. Home Page
I lent it to my guitar teacher, who wanted to take a look at it. I think it got lost under a pile of Bach transcriptions or something, never to be seen again. I've also subscribed to the following saying by my guitar teacher, "yeah, cats are playing a lot of notes, often at breakneck speed, but it's mostly a bunch of bullshit notes, like throwing shit against the wall".
in the end, quality trumps quantity.
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I tried the demo and I like it. It uses a metronome that gradually increases in tempo as your progress thru that days excercise. Which is what I do already, the difference is with this program you don't have to stop playing and reach for the metronome every time you change tempos. Originally Posted by xador
Cool idea. I'm tempted to do the yearly subscription.
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