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That "no rolling" thing sounds weird. What if I'm playing a line that that has ascending 4ths on the 7th fret starting on the A string, and when I get to the G on the B string, want to play an F on the B string. Logically, I'd bar that using probably my middle or ring finger and hit the F with my index. Also, I would never, naturally, individually finger a set of 4ths.
Back to the technique discussion...is there such thing as jazz guitar technique? I'd just transcribe stuff, probably stay away from guitarists to avoid shapes, and have to really figure out the best left hand fingerings for the stuff. But I never use transcriptions as technique studies. I'd probably go with classical stuff. The Bach inventions and chorales are currently on my music stand, I try playing the parts individually on the inventions (although playing both at the same time is possible on a few, check out Miles Okazaki on youtube) and playing all 4 parts of the chorales as closely as I can to how it's notated for piano (because, obviously, some octaves will need to be displaced). The Kreutzer studies are also great, and Adam Rogers recommends doing Bach violin concertos.
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11-10-2014 01:38 AM
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Bach's Cello Suites are beautiful works musically and technically. Many years ago I learned nos. 1 and 3. No. 1 is perhaps a bit easier and is in the key of D(dropped). My personal favorite dance in that suite is the Sarabande and Minuet II. And Cello Suite no.3 in A is also fabulous. John Williams had a nice album of the Cello Suites back in the Seventies or so.
Originally Posted by monk
Jay
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William Leavitt's method of course.
the non-rolling thing is a classical guitar consistent approach. Jazzers roll. Rolling is faster for "horn" lines.
the rub is:
it's harder on your joints
the quality of tone is not (necessarily) optimized
you can get some undesirable over-ringing from the note you are leaving
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Big ole nope. Classical players barre and roll the fingers all the time.
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I have the Andrew Greene book and that's the only place I've ever really seen that advocated
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no doubt classical pros roll. no doubt they do whatever they want. Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
but.. coincidentally i was reviewing some technical studies tonight that involve the avoidance of rolling in favor of some of these awkward finger "jumps". i've had highly educated/trained collegiate classical pro instructors specifically advise me to avoid rolling in situations when there was the option. i can't really say what general advise there is for or against rolling where classical guitar is concerned, just that i've noticed it come up more than a few times in my classical guitar studies, having come from a plectrum background.
rolling is easier on narrow necks too, by the way. not nearly as effortless on widely spaced strings.
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In general rolling the fingers is a bit harder on the hands then not doing it but the low tension of nylon strings often makes up for the wide spacing and I've never had a teacher advise against it. For classical stuff it's all about the passage you're playing so it's a balance ... the notes will be easier to play cleanly using tips of the fingers but when you're playing contrapuntal music and stuff then using two fingers to do the job that one finger can do is a waste.
Now that I think about it Scott Tenant has his "left hand walking" exercises in "Pumping Nylon" that are essentially that sort of over-under finger thing on adjacent strings in the same fret. That's in the warm up section as a dexterity exercise... not as a real-world fingering for a passage. I guess I should revise to say that Andrew Greene is the only person who I've seen actually declare that as a sort of rule or system.
Speaking of which "Pumping Nylon" is killllllller. The left hand exercises in the warmup section are brutal. The right hand stuff can either be done fingerstyle (duh) or you can put in a little extra work to adapt it for hybrid picking or plectrum.
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I guess I could say too that I've done a lot of formal classical guitar study. The pedagogy has advanced a lot so there's still a lot of old school stuff that a lot of younger guys are moving past. One that comes to mind is that a lot of teachers don't really teach "rest stroke" as much any more (some still teach it religiously per Maestro Segovia's prophecies of course). This avoiding the rolled fingering thing could maybe be an old school "rule" that was phased out over the last many years? In any case the classical end-all-be-all is always "the phrase" so it's whatever makes the phrase happen is the best way.
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Yep, classical, including modern "classical" will require you to explore a lot of counter intuitive fingers if you come at it from an electric guitar background. But then, "chord melody" playing requires a lot of torturous contortions as well.
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I come from playing a lot of bass and it was always learn all the different approaches/techniques so you have them available. When playing don't think about it and let your hand do what they want in the moment.
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Unless you're in a Segovia master class, lol.
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Hi Mark,
One suggestion is to take a look at the sample pages for Guitar Fingers: Essential Technique in Pictures. It's a biased suggestion as I'm the author. Since you've been playing for a while, the angle from which this book can benefit your playing is the analysis and breakdown of each technique. This might help pinpoint which specific aspects of a technique are roadblocks or hinder your progress.
I also second the use of classical guitar material for electric guitar technique development, as several here already recommended.
Some people mentioned "finger rolling" in this thread and Frank Gambale's Technique Book 1 and 2. I would also suggest watching his Monster Licks & Speed Picking video on this subject to see close-ups of his left and right hands.
Another great resource is UK guitarist Rick Graham who offers free (youtube) and for-a-fee videos with in-depth insights into technique.
Happy Holidays!
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Horowitz 'gypsy jazz picking' is good. It has a section with musical examples that highlight some technical difficulties snd were mostly taken from Django solos - i guess that strikes the right balance between music and excersize. If one is only practicing technique with actual musical examples my experience is that one tends to screw up always at the difficult place and spends 90+% of the time with things that one knows. But I do this a lot with the loop features of Transcribe! and BiaB.
happy holidays everybody!
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yes, Frank rolls like crazy from what I've seen. he has big thick fingers too. works for him. Originally Posted by pinbridge
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rolling is definitey bad in my book (no pun intended)
Sheets of Sound Home Page
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I'm definitely all about playing on finger tips arching the fingers, it's improved my tone dramatically and has given me more control, although I'll say it is hard to get a legato sound moving from one string to another using the same finger.
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