Do you avoid changing positions when you play?

[SamBooka]

Hi,
I have a transcription for Blues for Alice from a Charlie Parker book and it starts at the tenth postion and after two bars shifts to the 5th.. and a few bars later 7th.. by that point I got bored and started working it out myself..

What I have noticed is that I can just as easily play it on the 10th position give or take.. I am no longer avoiding the D string and it makes it easier to transpose as well

I know everything is judged on a case by case basis but in general do you avoid jumping around like that vs staying anchored in one position.

Bear in mind I am a novice to the nth degree.. I watched the Joe P vid last night and he is all over the map. I am not talking so much about soloing or comping but doing a head like this.. how do you approach it?

[rwmol]

My approach is to scan the music to find the lowest and highest notes and play a head where no movement (or very little) is needed. Now, this method goes out the door if octaves, arps and chords are included.

[docbop]

I try to move around because from listening to musicians that do you hear how much better the phrasing is, because the timbre of the passages aren't changing all the time like it does when changing strings. The one who really triggered this was watching a bunch of Pat Metheny video, then Scofield, and more and more. Then my guitar teacher had me work on soloing using only two strings that really nailed. Start experimenting you'll hear the difference.


As to fingerings in books the problem is most are bad because they usually are not done by the author. After emailing a few authors asking about fingerings they said the big publishers have staff that create fingerings for the TAB. Most authors say the same thing most teachers do, try it and then find what works for you. I the long run you are your own best teacher.

[bobby d]

Some shifting is needed with a lot of Jazz melodies, but going from 10 to 5 is probably unnecessary repositioning. There are lots of options on guitar, so it's a good idea to find what's easiest. Once you have the head down, learn it an octave higher or lower.

Repositoning while improvising is a choice too. I like to use different positions, but it's also good to know how to work in one position while going thru the chord changes.

[targuit]

I utilize the whole finger board. It truly depends on the song and the key. But there are many reasons to utilize varied positions. I would suggest it is unavoidable if you play a sophisticated arrangement. If you are talking a very elementary comping rhythm part, much can be articulated within the first twelve frets or so.

Joe Pass is an excellent role model of economy and essentially classical style when playing solo guitar.

[fep]

I like to be aware of the chord of the moment and how the line relates to the chord. So I move around the fingerboard in the same way I would play the chords of the tune.

[cosmic gumbo]

It all depends on the phrasing and articulation you choose to use to express yourself. Slides, slurs, etc., will have you moving around the fretboard to execute them. If you pick every note, it's easier to stay in a position that allows access to the range you're working in.

[FPC-music]

Also check out how the master Raney does it that's your answer.. Move around free as a bird on that neck.. Also notice how he only use 3 fingers most of the time, like many of the best phrasers of bebop on guitar..

[GuyBoden]

Practice playing in all positions by Jack Zucker.

[MarkRhodes]

I like to be aware of the chord of the moment and how the line relates to the chord. So I move around the fingerboard in the same way I would play the chords of the tune.

I do more and more of that but I don't always play out of chord shapes I would use for comping. So I might actually move around more for lines than if I was just playing the chords!

[pubylakeg]

I would say do both. Especially in a practice session. I find with bop lines it's valuable to try out every possible fingering. From doing this I find certain fingerings will groove much better than others, and very often, one fingering pattern will also seem much more compatible with the right hand execution as well. Very often you'll immediately know that something just feels and sounds right. Also, trying out the different positions helps develop familiarity with the fretboard.
I'd also say that when it comes to "real world" playing and improvising on tunes, one really starts to move outside static position playing. The main objective with jazz is playing "through" chord sequences and connecting one chord to the next. Personally, when I started to apply diminished thinking to V dominant chords, and then moving in minor thirds over these, it opened up a lot of possibilities.
I'd also say that playing Bird lines on the guitar does definitely provoke the player into a lot of position shifts, but that's pretty much the point, i.e. getting outside the limitations of guitaristic thinking and playing.

[SamBooka]

Thanks. I remember reading an interview with PMeth where he found that players who play horizontally (i.e. not nailed in one position) are more interesting to him.

I kinda do what I want to do and screw the rest of ya's but wanted your opinion. Sometimes it just doenst make sense to jump all over then neck.. sometimes it does . Do what feels right.

I agree that being able to play in different positions will only make me better.. but I have to learn it in ONE position first

[pubylakeg]

There's also the consistent timbral quality that can be gained from focusing on the treble strings.

Edit;Oops, already pointed out by the good Doc.

[edh]

There's also the consistent timbral quality that can be gained from focusing on the treble strings.

That's a very good point.

[JazzOnSix]

I try to move around because from listening to musicians that do you hear how much better the phrasing is, because the timbre of the passages aren't changing all the time like it does when changing strings.

Couldn't agree more, docbop. What you're describing is exactly the way that Wes Montgomery played. Beyond the superior phrasing and sound, the left-hand shifting also reduces the stress on the right hand, whether you're using the thumb in successive downstrokes or a pick. Over the years it certainly solved a lot of technical issues for me, as it did for George Benson and others cut from the Wes cloth.

[Nabil B]

I transcribed a whole Dexter Gordon chorus that could be played in one position. Just goes to show that you don't necessarily have to move all over the neck to play an excellent solo. I'm not trying to imply that one doesn't need to be comfortable all over the neck, just that it's maybe not THAT important ? I admit that I don't quite get the whole "playing horizontally makes your phrasing better" thing...

[targuit]

One of the finest solo jazz guitarists I know on YouTube, a professional session player who studied classical guitar with Charlie Byrd, is quite the "positional" player in that he articulates single and double stop notes as well as chord voicings in the most 'economical' way I have ever seen. His right hand technique is clearly classical in nature with a nice arch to the wrist as he fingerpicks the melody and chords. What differs in his technique from mine is that he rarely uses his right thumb to strum chords and plays less "horizontally" (up and down the fret board) with slurs and hammer-ons. In this way he phrases notes very articulately like a piano player, which is more "work intensive" to me than my slurring approach, which tends to lend a more 'violinistic' style to the phrase. Not to use the term legato.

I think the best guitarists on the whole tend to use both positional vertical and horizontal playing which helps lend a signature tone to their phrasing. When you play in position at any fret on the neck, you have about two and a half octaves of notes within a five fret stretch. That is quite a range for most melodies. But, I actually find it easier sometimes to play that melody range in the 'horizontal' approach with slurs and slides that help define my sound. And I like 'easy'.

But I love this player's taste and fluid phrasing. And who is the mystery player? Bob Burford. This gentleman is one of the finest "old school" guitarists I have heard with a wonderful taste in music and impeccable technique with a great sense of swing and timing. If Bob is on this forum I would like to know, just to talk about the business and his experiences. Bob was a close friend of the great George Barnes. I just play through his playlists on his channel maybe every two or three weeks - like taking lessons from one of the best. Here is a link to his version of a Billy Reid classic. Bob plays his clips sometimes purely solo and often with BIAB Real Tracks accompaniment. One of the very best I've heard. Bob plays with his eyes closed, as was advocated by Liszt and Chopin.

[rwmol]

Soloing, using the entire neck is my approach, but the OP inquires if he should play a written lead sheet at various positions on the neck. I think we've moved away from his question.

[targuit]

Rwmol - Hope I have not deviated the post. In effect, the notes on the lead sheet can often be played at various fret positions. Where you choose to articulate the notes depends on your style, feel, use of slurs and slides, and tonal considerations among others. So whether you choose to play in first position or up around the seventh and eighth through fifteenth, the notes will be the same on the lead sheet. But the choice does matter. Isn't that what the OP asked about?

jay

[bako]

There are 2 and 1/3 octaves of the chromatic scale plus one doubled note within 5 frets.
This is sufficient range to cover many melodies.

Advantages:

All the notes are in one place.

Disadvantages:

The combinations of notes that can be slurred is determined by the position.
What string a note is played on is determined by the position which influences tone color.
Notes that fall on the same string cannot be played simultaneously.

I tend to play in one position when sight reading or improvising close to the limits of my skills.
When feeling freer, I can focus more on phrasing and tone color which will often involve multiple positions.

[SamBooka]

As a side note.. I have noticed with CP heads (or at least in Blues for Alice and Relaxin at Camarillo ) you can drop the occaisional note and have it sound better.. usually the last note of a phrase that drops down a 4th or more.. just chiming in

[SamBooka]

Soloing, using the entire neck is my approach, but the OP inquires if he should play a written lead sheet at various positions on the neck. I think we've moved away from his question.

Yeah.. soloing in one position can be boring for the player and the audience. My question was more about heads and why jump around positions for different phrases when you can play faster, cleaner, more concisely by staying in one position and moving up (or down) strings

[GuyBoden]

Bob Burford. This gentleman is one of the finest "old school" guitarists I have heard with a wonderful taste in music and impeccable technique with a great sense of swing and timing.

Thanks for sharing, great playing, I like this.

[targuit]

Glad you enjoy Bob's music, Guy! I did not intend to deviate the thread from the OP's post, but rather to introduce Bob as an example of a player who plays in position very economically and almost pianistically. Plus he is so talented and has such great taste in music. A real pro. Nice version of This Masquerade. Check out his version of 'Round Midnight and Here's That Rainy Day.

Jay

[guitarbard]

This is an old thread, but, a good one, to me. I love wandering all over the place when I'm playing. Jazzwise, I hope I keep improving,,rock, blues, fusion,,anything else, I'm very used to it. Is my tendency, in fact.