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Originally Posted by woland
But it does taking getting used to. And they're not for everyone.Last edited by MarkRhodes; 08-25-2014 at 09:53 AM. Reason: spelling
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08-24-2014 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I guess my biggest issue so far is tone - thin pick is bright - I can't do pick+fingers and I cannot switch between pick and fingers without constantly fiddling with the tone.
But I am willing to invest some time - it is good to get yourself way from one groove - been playing with thick picks for a while and my technique stagnated - I think it will be good to play some etudes (Galbright or Fishman) with thin pick.
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I've been using 3.0mm Dunlop Big Stubbys for years. They just feel right to me and I can use a very light touch. Every time I try something different, it just feels wrong. Probably another reason I am not a good candidate for the Benson picking.
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Originally Posted by woland
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Thanks to some budget changes I'm taking lessons again. I had a picking question that somehow led to talk on fast players. The things pointed that are important as posture and most important is relaxation. Said watch any of the fast players like Wes, McLaughlin, Martino, they are very relaxed when playing and its required to play fast you can't have tension.
So thought I'd add that nugget to the thread.
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Originally Posted by docbop
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Originally Posted by docbop
The Leavett Modern Method book has Speed Study's but no explanation how to approach practising them. They are very simple scale patterns that are simple so they can be memorized quickly. By memorizing a simple pattern that removes any mental stress that could come from sightreading or other technique issue. Then you're free to play the pattern as fast you can and while doing it focus on your breathing to keep it relaxed. Check you shoulder position are they relaxed and your posture in general. Once you can play the exercise completely relaxed, then kick the metronome up and repeat working to play it relaxed.
Thought that would be of interest on why the studies are simple patterns and how to practice them.
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I agree witch docbop---and so many others---that when it comes to picking speed (among other things), tension is the enemy.
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Originally Posted by rsclosson
I am certainly lacking in speed, but have made some progress over the last couple years. I think the right hand exercises like ecj posted are useful, but I only do a little of that kind of stuff. Lately I'm spending days on end practicing the same lines over and over, breaking down the little 3, 4, 5 note fragments. Doing this helps me analyze weak areas and drill them. A few I've noticed that stand out:
Alternate picking with the downstroke on a higher string and upstroke on a lower string. Feels weird because obviously the pick is moving in the "wrong" direction to come back to the lower string. I suppose that's the point of doing repeated upstrokes in that situation (reverse sweep? economy? still don't know the terminology). But obviously there are plenty of players who have gotten this move under control using strict alternate picking at fast tempos.
String skips. This is just something that always needs work, although I've gotten better at it. It's nice to be able to play large leaps, especially cliches like the third of a dominant chord (leading tone) up a 7th to the 9th (or flat or sharp 9th) of the same chord. Gotta skip strings for stuff like that (or shift way up the fingerboard landing on the 4th finger, which is risky). Never played those moves 5 years ago.
As far as two hands coordinating, I find picking up my left hand fingers sometimes lags behind my right hand. Especially the 3rd and 4th fingers. Also sometimes when mixing repeated pitches with non-repeated pitches in a line. So one exercise I do:
-Finger any note with the 4th finger. I'll say D, 7th fret, 3rd string. Play 4 consecutive 8th notes on that pitch, followed immediately by 4 descending chromatic eighths starting on the same pitch (i.e. D-D-D-D D-Db-C-B)
I often find my right hand can do this quicker than the left. As if my right hand can burn on those repeated pitches and then my stupid left hand is caught by surprise: "Oh, the pitches are moving now!" So my thought is, why spend lots of time picking as fast as possible on an open string with just the right hand when the left hand can't hang? I do still do some right hand only stuff though.
Not that these issues are going to be the same for you, but I think the point is, keep zooming in on your little technical flaws and addressing 'em.Last edited by MattC; 08-31-2014 at 05:31 PM.
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Roger,
Cool to see you on this forum, we share a love of Eastman guitars. In terms of practicing play fast, my hang ups came from not feeling long chunks of time. When I practice playing up, I set the metronome as slow as I can and have each click as the downbeat of every two measures or every four measures.
I think it was Hal Galper who said that you can only play as fast as you can hear. Every day, I have been ear training to get myself to hear as fast as possible. The process is slow, but it has taught me that technique is rooted more in the inner ear than the hands.
In terms of techniques for picking, check out Jimmy Bruno's book on Picking Technique. I use a variation of free hand technique, but my picking comes from a combination of small muscle movement from the forearm rotation, and elbow (as opposed to Bruno's lightning elbow of doom). The key is to maintain a slight arch to the wrist of the right hand and keep loose as with everything.
All that being said, those Coltrane changes still elude me.
Roger-- I brought my Eastman Uptown up to Woodstock for a guitar make over. I am getting a sweet custom bone bridge, a new nut, and fret leveling done to my baby. I will have to record my guitar once the work is done!
--Alex
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For me, the goal of practicing for speed is to be able to sound relaxed at whatever tempo I'm improvising at.
The fun part of playing jazz is creating on the spot, and the better technique you have, the easier it is to get to the things you hear, feel, conceive, etc...
Some musicians we think of as great improvisers may not have even been improvising.
Pepper Adams was fired from the Miles Davis Quintet for playing what Miles was 'improvising' every night, down an octave, during Miles' solos.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
I'm starting to appreciate the fact that a lot of the greats did not "improvise" in the way it is taught in jazz school (everything different, every time).
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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Originally Posted by ecj
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So it has been almost a week experimenting with Conti's Precision Technique book.
Still getting Study #1 up to speed - but I have to say that 0.38 paper think pick is far more natural to me now.
I prefer one that is tad thicker - 0.46 or so. I also bend them slightly along the axis of symmetry. Gives them a bit less snappy feel and more control. Overall the thing that bothers me the most is not mechanics but certain lack of expressiveness with thin pick - everything has that bright chirpy feel to it.
I also restrung my Excel with Rotosound Monel Top Tape 12s. Made big difference (against Chromes).Last edited by woland; 09-05-2014 at 10:06 PM.
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Jim Hall watched speed demon Tal Farlow when Tal was with Red Norvo. He said to himself (paraphrased):
"I could practice 24 hours a day and never be able to do that. So find something you CAN do dummy and do it as well as you possibly can".
Wise words indeed.
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Originally Posted by woland
I like exercise #1 from that book, though now I play it without picking every note. (I can play it that way and have over a hundred times, at least, but now I'm going for something different.)
About the expressiveness with the super-thin pick, I think that is the deal-breaker for a lot of guys. I like the Fender Medium now and think I'll be with it for awhile.
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Originally Posted by jbyork
I appreciate speed. I would like to blaze for the sake of blazing. But day in and day out, it's more important for me to add tunes to the rep, work up new intros and endings, experiment with turnarounds, and add some 'core language' to my trick bag than it is to obsess over speed.
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Originally Posted by jbyork
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I only practice technique exercises so I can hang with the horn and piano players at whatever tempo they hang at.
If they never played above 300bpm, like one world class Bill Evans-inspired pianist I play regularly with, I wouldn't care about being able to solo at those tempos, but tomorrow night I play with a big band that thinks nothing of sight reading modern charts at 300 or more, and I'm also required to solo on them.
There's a chance I could be playing in the future with an internationally known horn player, who is known for being able to burn at tempos up to 400bpm(!), so I've managed to get my improvisational speed up to 340bpm, but only on
'good' days.
I used to blow with just the metronome, but I didn't realize I was cheating at faster tempos until i started playing along with Aebersold backing tracks like "Burnin'!"
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Just want to clarify before we get too far off base. I can actually play as fast as I want to now. I have never been interested in becoming a speed player. I would just like to be able to pick every note during a fast passage. I am quite capable of fast passages now by slurring a lot. Just want to add the ability to articulate like McLaughlin or DeMeola.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
So could you explain how is Benson picking faster? I think that at this point I do not understand Benson picking at all.
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Originally Posted by woland
Conti is very fast. If I were that fast, I wouldn't worry about going another way.
But for me, the conventional grip produced inconsistent results. (Perhaps as Shakespeare almost said, "The fault lies not in the grips but in ourselves...")
The Benson grip allows for more consistency and less wasted motion. There's a vast thread on this subject in the Player's section and several people who use this grip and are far better than I am will do their best to answer any questions you ask.
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Does this guy have it right? Re: The Benson picking technique?
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