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I feel that this is one area I am very weak in.
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06-27-2014 08:26 PM
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Don Mock wrote a book on octaves that came with a CD called Guitar Axis Masterclass Octaves. It's been combined with his Target Tones and Turnarounds books into one volume.
If you only want the Octaves book there are still some available at Amazon for around $7.00, less if you buy a used copy. The Octaves, Target Tones, Turnarounds book sells for $19.95 new on Amazon.
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Monk knows way more than I do, but my 2 cents is to forget books on a topic like this and just start learning how to play all the heads you already know "normally" as octaves. Music is learned by doing - octaves are not intellectually challenging, you just need to figure out how to physically play them in a way that makes sense and then get comfortable doing so. Transcribe Wes' intro to "D Natural Blues" and you'll be well on your way.
Alone Together in the standard key of D minor sits very nicely for octave playing on the guitar. A good tune to shed in that manner. Hmmm, what else sits well...Road Song sits very nicely. Wes wrote it, so that makes sense.
There is a thread somewhere on the forum where people chime in on how they like to finger octaves. You may find that helpful.
A book may help you, but for me I found that by spending about 20 minutes a day playing stuff I already knew in octaves, it came together pretty quickly for me. And since I learned by application I didn't have to get over the application hump that usually follows book study.
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I suggest start with simple melodies (like nursery rhymes) and tackle harder material when ready (eventually bebop heads).
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I would add to CoolVinny's post is hard part for me is working on the muting. For the Wes-style octaves he sweeps the strings to get that percussive sound, to do that you have be mute the non-fretted strings. I'm sure everyone has their own approach on muting the string above the fretted string. Like everyone else is saying just practice simple melodies. Sometimes when practising scales I'll play the last two or three notes as octaves to practice switching between single note and octave.
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Aren't octaves really the most justified technical area for cheating with an effects unit (pedal or onboard) ? Were there octave pedals when Wes was learning to play ?
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Here is an Amazon link for Don Mock's book, the one that the honorable Monk mentioned above...
Originally Posted by richb2
Guitar Axis Octaves Masterclass: Don Mock: 0654979038054: Amazon.com: Books
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Yep... Originally Posted by docbop
Two sentences from Don Mock's book, octave muting section, regarding Wes's octave playing:
A cool tip from the book:A big part of his fat octave sound was made by strumming at least three, and sometimes all six strings with his thumb. His left hand, fingering the octave shapes, blocked the unwanted strings from ringing
This is from the "Jazz Guitar Masterclass" book. There is a lot of good information in that book. $20 for a bunch of guitar lessons worth of material. That's a real bargain.With your-left hand fingers locked into an octave, just follow the lower notes. The top notes will automatically be there.
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No and No! Originally Posted by medblues
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Try to get an octave pedel to sound like that.... Originally Posted by medblues
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It just don't sound the same, bra. Originally Posted by medblues
Too mechanical. No "soul" in the loop, if you get my meaning.
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Wes wrote the book on Octaves
(sorry)
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Just Start... you'll look up in a year or so and you'll be able to play octaves. Then refine your skill.
I play octaves all the time, I generally read Heads with octaves. As Fep was saying your left hand becomes automatic... I concentrate on either note, top or bottom, doesn't matter.
I pluck sometimes, thumb and 1st finger for non percussive sounds, but generally sweep. Just start...
Just a note... your going to really find out if you hear or like your choice of notes, much more difficult to embellish or use technique to help with melodic lines.Last edited by Reg; 06-30-2014 at 11:05 AM.
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I know basic octave shapes (-well, I know the ones I know; I'm sure there are others.) I like them for heads, esp ballads. "These Foolish Things" was probably the first thing I learned where I'm more apt to play octaves than not.
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But what is the deal with adding another note, say a fifth? I've read that Benson (and others) did this. Is that also a 'just start' thing or is there a foundation one needs to build on?
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I concur with coolvinny, ff and Reg. Actually, I'm at a total loss to understand what an instructional book on how to play octaves could actually teach you.?.? I wonder what book Wes read? or Benson? Listen to the CD Wes Bound, by Lee Ritenour. What Rit pulls off in playing octaves can't be learned in any book . . nor can it be duplicated with an octave pedal. It was either in the linear notes in the CD jacket, or in an interview . . Rit said; "I wanted to dedicate one of my works to Wes. That meant shoring up on my octave playing skills and technique. Once I got into practicing the form and execution . . playing octaves became quite intoxicating. Now, I use that technique quite often". (paraphrasing)
Zucker has a video that he once posted here of himself playing "Sonny" almost entirely in octaves. It demonstrated what was to me probably the most pronounced and dramatic octave thumb strum that I've ever seen. GB and Henry Johnson use a very limited motion in their thumb strum. Above video of Emily shows her using her pick and not her thumb. (which is the method I usually employ) So, there are many different approaches to executing octaves. We must all find our own. I'm not sure you can get that from a book.
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>>I'm at a total loss to understand what an instructional book on how to play octaves could actually teach you.?
I don't know. I am looking for the basics of octaves. I figure we all stand on the shoulders of other so why try to reinvent the wheel? For example are you playing the changes in octaves? Do you know the arp of every chord type on a single string? I'd have a hard enough time trying to play the correct arp on one string, forget about using chord subs at the same time!
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I give Don Mock credit....making a book out of playing octaves is like making a book called "poaching an egg."
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OK . . so who said you need to religiously follow arps? Here's one of my favorite guitarists showing an octave approach in 4ths. Originally Posted by richb2
50 Jazz Guitar Licks You MUST Know - Lick #18: Minor Vamp - Frank Vignola - YouTube
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Sheryl Bailey. I like Frank, btw, but I have an issue with "learning licks".
Last edited by richb2; 06-30-2014 at 06:50 PM.
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to cross pollinate with another thread: the goodrick exercise of practicing playing up and down one string or two adjacent strings is also great for octave fluency, and vice versa, for obvious reasons.
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Here's an old vid I made, very sloppy, sorry, I made up a quick head and just recorded, but I did try and just play octaves.
I had just picked up BIAB and really wanted to use it... have used it at least two or three more times in the last 3 or 4 years. It's cool, just don't really have the time...
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Learning licks is a starting point. It's extremely helpful in understanding how and where to start with blowing octaves. That's why I referenced it. Originally Posted by richb2
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not a book, but useful: http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...&v=bzeYA_CJQmk
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Thanks. That was helpful. I never really tried to play upstrokes with my thumb! Originally Posted by Phil in London
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Note in Reg's video he uses his right hand index and pinky fingers for the octaves no matter which set of strings he is playing. This is how Don Mock suggests doing it. I changed to this approach and it seems to work best for me too.
Wes would do it either way.
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