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I'm just wondering if there's a difference between slurring a line and playing a line legato or is slurring just a method of making a line more legato.
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04-28-2014 05:00 AM
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Legato and slurs in general mean what cosmic gumbo reffered kindly in Wiki.
Slur is a sign meaning playing leagato.
In guitar techniques both words are used for the method aimed to achieve leagato.
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Legato: see Allan Holdsworth
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Slurring is legato, but legato need not be slurring.
got it?
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
True , but more accurate to say, Slurring: see AH
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Slurring means you do not articulate (pick/pluck/tongue) the subsequent note(s).
Legato mean you play smoothly and connectedly(word?) whether you articulate subsequent notes or not.
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On guitar if you pick every note that will be rather non legato however smothly you do it.Legato mean you play smoothly and connectedly(word?) whether you articulate subsequent notes or not.
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Unless you practice. Originally Posted by Jonah
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that is incorrect both theoretically and practically. Originally Posted by Jonah
it will be more challenging but remember that a hammer on or pull off requires a marked hammer strike or pull away on the string. Those are strikes, albeit soft ones.
its about holding each note for its full value and striking in a non-abrupt (i.e. smooth) way.
George Benson, John McLaughlin and Johnny Smith are just some of the players that easily demonstrate the case for legato plectrum playing.Last edited by fumblefingers; 04-29-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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I believe, not. As well as with violin - legato always means playing several notes with the same bow motion.Unless you practice.
But probably it could also the matter of hearing? What one hears as legato in the cotext.
This topic can be very long one, but seems that this was not the question.
It i obvious that legato is a wide range word meaning connected and smooth notes playing, and slur is a sign showing connecting notes.
Both words are used for indicating the techincal method on the instruments where it is connceted with it.
Legato is ofter reffered concerning guitar (or violine) also as just a certain techical method...
the usage of both words for it (slur amnd legato) make it a little bit confusing of what is what.
I think this was the question of TC, and your comment
seems to be ignoring the confusion of two words. Which is as fumblefingers says 'incorrect', (but I always add 'because' after I say 'incorrect') so - because there is no actual common strict understanding of both words' meaning.Slurring means you do not articulate (pick/pluck/tongue) the subsequent note(s).
Legato mean you play smoothly and connectedly(word?) whether you articulate subsequent notes or not.
No that you say it is incorrect is actually incorrect.that is incorrect both theoretically and practically.Last edited by Jonah; 04-29-2014 at 09:38 AM.
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I am just stating my understanding. We are not going to be able to resolve our disagreement and I would suggest that the OP do some research. I would use a couple of examples however.
1. I suggest that a guitar is able to play a repeating note in a legato fashion. For example - you are able to play a C on the second string several times repeated in a legato fashion without slurring - ie by articulating the note. That would not be slurring.
2. I suggest that a guitar is able to play two notes on separate strings in a legato fashion without hammering on or slurring the notes.
3. A piano is able to play legato.
I understand that one way to play legato is to slurr the notes. However legato, in my view, does not necessitate slurring.
Cheers.
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I understand your points and probably even agree with it personally, but I think the topic concerns more the common usage of the word.
And if you come in a guitar class you might hear something like 'play legato here!' meaning just technical method of playing without right hand picking, and also "slur these notes!" meaning actually musical leagto phrasing first hand.
Actually playing with left hand on guitar is also pick and pluck it is just a much softer than that with the right hand (mostly because no hands coordination involved) - so it is the same thing as legato on piano.
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I just put partly the same comments to ColinO message... I woudl add again that it seems the TC meant common sence and comfusion with two words.it will be more challenging but remember that a hammer on or pull off requires a marked hammer strike or pull away on the string. Those are strikes, albeit soft ones.
its about holding each note for its full value and striking in a non-abrupt (i.e. smooth) way.
George Benson, John McLaughlin and Johnny Smith are just some of the players that easily demonstrate the case for legato plectrum playing.
The other point I think if George Benson played legato with the pick, and then immediately legato with the left hand only we would hear the differnce. (Not the spot pick notes in legato line, but a set of consequent pick notes)
And last but not least - in acoustic guiter difference will be more signicant than in elctric.
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Well the OP asked if there was a difference in meaning between slurr and legato and there is a difference. If you can play legato without slurring (and you can) then the words must logically mean different things. Some people may use the terms interchangeably, but that doesn't mean that they are using the terms correctly. If the OP meant are the two terms sometimes used to mean the same thing in conversation, then I suppose the answer would be yes. But if he wanted to know if there was a difference in the meaning of the two words, then the answer is different.
Cheers.
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The difference is the difference between a notation and a technique.
Legato is a musical notation indicating notes should be played in sequence without pause. It is the opposite of staccato, where each note is stopped before the next is played. It can refer to long passages, not just short strings of notes.
Slurring is one technique for playing legato, but it's not the only one. One can also just play notes letting each ring out, not damping them before playing the next note. Think of swells on the ocean melting into each other.
Slurring in classical guitar is a very specific technique involving hammer-ons and pull-offs--usually for short strings of notes (triplets for instance), not entire sections of a piece.
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Jonah - to be clear, are you saying that the following statements are true or false? Originally Posted by Jonah
The ONLY way to achieve legato articulation on the guitar is with ligados.
If the guitarist wishes to achieve legato expression he MUST utilize ligado.
Legato articulation is not possible without ligado technique on the guitar
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Ligatto go, guys!
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but this question comes up all the time. you frequently here of "legato playing" by Holdsworth, Rosenwinkel, Kreisberg fans, etc. i believe that most most people simply mean "slur" when they say this.
in all sincerity i would really appreciate it if Jonah answered the question.
we're all students. just trying to learn here...
cheers.
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The video should link to the 49 second mark but if not, that's where you can start to see what's happening. It looks like Holdsworth is picking a lot of those notes but the legato still sounds really consistent to me. Wicked sounding licks to boot.
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well yeah, but in fairness he's only picking a few, compared to how many are flying by.
how about 38 seconds into this? is that descending phrase in any way legato?
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legato (Italian for "tied together") indicates that musical notes are played or sung smoothly and connected. That is, the player transitions from note to note with no intervening silence. Legato technique is required for slurred performance, but unlike slurring (as that term is interpreted for some instruments), legato does not forbid rearticulation.
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i'll buy that.
Aaron Shearer said that slurs maximize legato, but he did not say that slurs are the minimum standard to accomplish it.
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This sounds more like Plato's dialogue)))Jonah - to be clear, are you saying that the following statements are true or false?
The ONLY way to achieve legato articulation on the guitar is with ligados.
If the guitarist wishes to achieve legato expression he MUST utilize ligado.
Legato articulation is not possible without ligado technique on the guitar
You see, once again and again I would like to say that I speak about commpn practice of using these words.
If you come back to my first post in the thread you will see that I did not say anything new ever since.
In common sence both terms are used fo rthe same thing, having at the same time other meanings (we already all named these meanings).
I do not think that using these words like this is incorrect. The term 'slur' does not seem to be also so determined.
Abstractly legato is the matter of hearing, what you hear as legato is understood thus only in comparison with other articulations, and this also depnds on experince and hearing of the person..
Besides this personal issue, there si also a kind of conventional undertanting and usage - and in this conventional usage legato on guitar practically means technical method together with general abstract articulation method.
Also if you say to violinst to play legato he will play it with the same bow - no doubt (untill the bow is over and then he will have to change it to back motion as well as guitar player has to pick also changing the string (mostly))
This is what I meant.
I do not see any reason to make it so complex.
My next comment
was also quite correct, because I said "rather non legato" and in playing classical music at least it will be really so in most cases, even if Segovia will play it I will hear it as 'non legato' in comparison to may general understanding how legato can sound on classical guitar. This is quite conventional case to me.On guitar if you pick every note that will be rather non legato however smothly you do it.
Of course maybe to someone ithis 'non leagato' will sounf like 'legato' - but what can I do about it?
Please, note that 'non legato' is actually quite smoothe, at least in the practice I have dealt with.
PS
By the way in my native language (and some other European languages) there's no equivalent to 'slur' in technical sence, there's only 'legato' word used for every sence, maybe it effects also my notion.
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First two notes are quite audible as legato for sure, then I think a-g... though the whole line sounds more like 'non legato'.how about 38 seconds into this? is that descending phrase in any way legato?
At least I can hear unequal articulation in this line in his performance.
Pepe plays more even - closer to non legato though, but ut is better so than mixed.
By the way I remember as a kid and palyed a piece and there was a slur (a sign of slur I mean) and the teacher told me: "do not play technical leato here, play just meaning a leagato"
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