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Although I don't strictly use the technique in regards to gripping the pick, I still strike with the sides of the plectrum and my pinky slides all over the place even though it's in constant contact with the guard.
Originally Posted by Stu Foley
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06-14-2013 10:17 PM
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he had the rhinoplasty before those vids.
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Thanks Phil. I thought so. I have tried anchoring my little finger (anchoring in the truest sense) but things get a bit constricted when picking the high E string.
Another problem that I'll have to overcome is that I only have sporadic opportunities to practice at the moment. For this reason, I tend to pick up my acoustic, rather than my electric archtop. As we know, this technique doesn't translate well onto round wound strings so I'm going to put some groundwound D'addario EFT flat tops on my acoustic. I'll see how it sounds.
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After practicing my picking I noticed I was using a tight grip on the pick.
I found when I strummed a chord it didn't sound very nice.
So I loosened my grip on the pick and thought it sounded much nicer.
Then I started playing scales and the same thing, it sounds better although the volume is slightly lower.
Wonder if anybody else experinced this and if a looser grip on the pick in general is better.
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Originally Posted by jnbrown
I noticed that I used a light grip when sweeping and strumming.......although I never grip the plectrum really tight. I find that a tight grip is not suitable at any time really.
Loose and flexible and you have more of a chance of getting that whole organic "hand is part of the groove" thing going on.
This seems to work for me anyway.
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This is something I found to be true as well. Originally Posted by jnbrown
Strangely enough, it was brought to my attention while watching a drumming instructional video with Peter Erskine!
He was talking about the very same phenomenon, only as it applies to cymbals & sticks - same principle.
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Originally Posted by Philco
Yeah!! Dan has that stuff down.
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I've been working on this and it finally dawned on my what he is doing with the pick, and why. George started out emulating Wes, playing with his locked thumb technique. Watch George play with his thumb. Then watch him play with a pick. He is using the exact same motion. His thumb is bent back perhaps because of so many years of playing with his thumb. Thats a lot of stretching. I don't think this is all that rare; I remember watching an older sax player who had his right pinky bent oddly, deformed over the years I am sure.
So its not about the 90 degree thing, that just happens because his natural thumb technique features a bent back thumb. He just holds the pick naturally for him.
As for holding the pick with the pointy end inward toward the palm, that just serves to keep the pick (and the thumb) close to the strings, just as if he were using his thumb.
If I am right about this, then the secret is to find your own locked thumb position and then grab the pick in the Benson way. Unless youv'e been playing like Wes for thirty years or so, you probably will hold it at about a 45 degree angle, not a 90.
For me, the main features of this technique - using the fat part of the pick to stay closer to the strings and create a rounder sound, and the locked thumb to ensure that picking motion comes from the arm and that the pick stays secure, is worth the effort to learn it. I especially like the sound it makes on my acoustic Larrivee, as well as on my archtops.
Jimmy Spero
Sacramento, CA
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I switched because of the sound thing definitely. Check out this video in 1080p - they close-up nicely on his right hand. I saw this right hand technique and simply had to try to achieve it. I think he's got one of the best right hands around... Originally Posted by archtopist
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He's really got control of the small sweeps as well. Can't hear any difference between the sweeps and the single picked notes. The angle of the pick lends itself to that......the way it falls seems to be more controllable.
I might have a crack at working some of this out....I like the changes.
There are so many facets to this technique that I have given up trying to describe it. All these things make a big difference....the angle, the position on the thumb, the position on the finger, how much blade, the angle of the blade, the type of plectrum, the material of the plectrum, the tip of the plectrum, how much tip to use, the angle of the plectrum (is the tip aiming backwards or toward your face or straight), how hard you grip, where is your wrist in relation to the bridge, how to mute, what are your other fingers doing.....I could go on.
It's impossible to explain even with a video.
You just have to keep working with it and find your own path.
It certainly freed me.
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There are some things I miss though, about more a conventional way of holding a pick:
Having the thumb in a locked position stifles the normal kind of movement that would occur when economy picking, or should I say more precisely - "circular" picking - the thumb joint is constantly flexing, but the Benson method puts the kibosh on that.
Also, the right side of the tip of my index finger tends to take a real beating when playing the chopping funk stuff....
But the sound.... is fat! Round! Corpulent even!
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Just found Mr. Perry Hughes from Detroit: great aplication of the technique.
more info about him: hereLast edited by nunocpinto; 06-30-2013 at 10:50 AM.
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And there's that sound again. Fat and even.
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Check this video out guys: very cool footage with all the right angles
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I think we all have to address pick angle in our own way, it definitely has major impact on tone and flow. Many major league players have settled on that Benson backward angle, and there's no denying it's effectiveness. Here's a great video showing Russ Malones's right hand technique while smokin'...
However, for every master employing this technique, there's another master using the pick with a forward angle.
Check out Herb Ellis' comment on picking at 7:36...
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I'm a new convert to GB picking - I coughed up the cash and bought JC Stylles method, inc. instructional vid, access to his website with extra photos and vids, as well as personal coaching. For me it was totally worth it. Apart from the confidence I get from the technique where my hand 'knows' better the connection between the pick and the string, thus improving accuracy (less 'bad' days and consistently more 'good' days as Tuck Andress refers to), it's way more comfortable for my entire arm mechanism, particularly how the 'cupped' hand angle doesn't make your forearm twist
anti-clockwise like traditional grip.
Nothing worse than a convert
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I just wanted to point out that most players don't play with the pick parallel to the string all the time. They tilt the opposite direction of GBs way depending on the line. There is also not much understanding of how string gauge and pick thickness effect standard pick technique. I'm hearing this comparison of the GB technique and standard angle. I think that is a misunderstanding. I also think there is an element of Howard Roberts and Kenny Burell's technique that overlaps from GB to the so called standard picking technique. Kind of the middle ground. Hank and Bireli use a combination of these things. Pat really tilts the pick the other way and for good reason. Originally Posted by 3625
I'm a new convert to GB picking - I coughed up the cash and bought JC Stylles method, inc. instructional vid, access to his website with extra photos and vids, as well as personal coaching. For me it was totally worth it. Apart from the confidence I get from the technique where my hand 'knows' better the connection between the pick and the string, thus improving accuracy (less 'bad' days and consistently more 'good' days as Tuck Andress refers to), it's way more comfortable for my entire arm mechanism, particularly how the 'cupped' hand angle doesn't make your forearm twist
anti-clockwise like traditional grip.
Nothing worse than a convert
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Good point Chuck about the variation in pick angle between different players - I agree. I wasn't actually commenting directly off your previous post, but rather just putting in my2c worth about GB picking since you revived the thread. Cheers. Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero
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+1 Originally Posted by 3625
I'm a new convert to GB picking - I coughed up the cash and bought JC Stylles method, inc. instructional vid, access to his website with extra photos and vids, as well as personal coaching. For me it was totally worth it. Apart from the confidence I get from the technique where my hand 'knows' better the connection between the pick and the string, thus improving accuracy (less 'bad' days and consistently more 'good' days as Tuck Andress refers to), it's way more comfortable for my entire arm mechanism, particularly how the 'cupped' hand angle doesn't make your forearm twist
anti-clockwise like traditional grip.
Nothing worse than a convert
Yes, it's the way the wrist works in this position, it's very different than the wrist movement of the standard pick position.
It's a misconception that it's only about the pick angle, as others seem to think. That's similar to saying a golf swing is only about how you grip the club.
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I'm not sure what is the standard picking position, there seems to be so many styles. Originally Posted by fep
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Well, I'd say then, the Benson wrist motion is different than every other picking position/method that I'm aware of. The unique wrist motion is what makes the Benson technique the "Benson technique". imo Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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So. Where do fall in the spectrum or am I bi-plectrumal?
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Nice playing, Chuck. You were "Bensoning" at the beginning, then switched. Then you switched back at the end. I'm not sure what the question is.
I get what folks are saying about the wrist thing, but Benson doesn't do the "oscillation" thing Tuck describes all the time. Especially when strumming, he's rotating his forearm the same way folks do in standard grip. That took me a while to realize.
I don't really understand why, but the difference to me is only really noticeable once you get up to eighth notes around 300 bpm. Anything under that and both grips work pretty well. Once I hit that speed level the traditional grip is just...stiffer? It's harder for me to keep loose and relaxed, and my time and groove suffer even if I can get the notes out.
I will still never understand why the tone is so different. You'd think you'd be able to produce the same tone with either direction of tilt, but I just can't. The Benson tone has its own, unique sound. The combo of the tone and groove to me make it the best for jazz.
I can understand why anyone who primarily works with overdrive would shy away, because the reasons that the tone is so nice for a clean jazz sound make it pretty terrible for overdrive, to my ears. Very scrape-y. Same problems on an acoustic flattop with round wounds.
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But I don't know about that it not working with overdrive. If you modify the GB picking technique, pull the hand back, use a sharper edge pick, lean on the bridge with the side of the hand to mute like Hendrix and Santana, it will work I think. Just thinking out loud.
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Interesting! That's one thing about Tuck's article that has never really made a lot of sense to me. From videos, it doesn't really look like GB is doing the "oscillation" thing at all. I guess you've come to the same conclusion. Originally Posted by ecj
Folks say Santana does a GB-ish thing, though I haven't verified that. Santana plays with plenty of overdrive. I'm not a huge fan, but plenty of people love his tone. Originally Posted by ecj
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