Stop using a pick altogether...

[JakeAcci]

wow that's pretty nuts. I don't think anybody in the world could pick all of that with accents as smooth and clear.

[GuyBoden]

wow that's pretty nuts. I don't think anybody in the world could pick all of that with accents as smooth and clear.

Yes, he's the best I've heard.

[bob dullam]

much thanks to all for posting on this thread. biggest frustration for me is suddenly dumping all that I have going with a pick. spent lots of yrs, on FG sweep picking, am decent at it, but it doesn't have same sound as fingerstyle, that trad. jazz sound I like. Ya, Scotty Anderson is awesome. I have that tape. thing that sounds so great bout his playing is that his fast runs all sound so relaxed.

[jzucker]

That Tom Quale is !@#$ ridiculous. Here's one a bit more jazzy that utilizes some of the same techniques:

[sylvain54000]

That Tom Quale is !@#$ ridiculous. Here's one a bit more jazzy that utilizes some of the same techniques:

Thanks for mentionning my name Jack.
i've never played with a pick and i must say it has been quite an issue for many years... but i sticked to it.
Tim miller is awesome and that hybrid technique fits well with the fingerstyle playing i do.
I tried to incorporate some of his ideas in my playing, but with an archtop an clean sound.

[jzucker]

he told me uses free strokes and judge for yourself:

Hi Sylvain,

I recall you said you use free strokes....is that true?

Also, what do you do for more gainy rock sounds. Do the fingers work with that kind of higher gain sound?

[jzucker]

Thanks for mentionning my name Jack.
i've never played with a pick and i must say it has been quite an issue for many years... but i sticked to it.
Tim miller is awesome and that hybrid technique fits well with the fingerstyle playing i do.
I tried to incorporate some of his ideas in my playing, but with an archtop an clean sound.

you sound fabulous and the lines you play have such a beautiful touch to them.

[AlainJazz]

Awesome playing Sylvain. Thanks for posting.

[jzucker]

related to this thread and inspired by Sylvain Courtney, Tim Miller and Tom Quayle I'm integrating a lot more pick and fingers material into my practice routine.

[paulkogut]

I've been staying out of the forum scene lately (the recent "who eats who's lunch" is a perfect example why), but this topic is personal enough to inspire me to wade back in.


I've been all thumb for the past 5 years or so. I'd always loved Wes, and dug the direction John Abercrombie went in the mid-90's when he dropped the pick, but would always go back to the security of a pick after trying the thumb for a tune or two.


Then I found myself in the middle of a family health care crisis, I dropped out of the scene for close to two years, no gigs and hardly touching the guitar. When I could finally get back to playing, the pick felt like this awkward little piece of plastic, with the thumb, my playing felt much more sincere, connected and honest. So I decided to make a go of it and have been pickless ever since.


My technique ends up being closer to Abercrombie than Wes. Light touch, low action, loud amps. A couple subtle tips: A boost pedal up front can help, John uses a Boss EQ set flat with output cranked, I use a Sarno Earth Drive, again output cranked, and the drive barely cracked. A volume pedal sees a lot of use, the thumb is great for dynamic shadings within a line, but I don't want to hit the strings too hard, if I need an overall increase in volume, I go to the pedal.


It's interesting, I've found the opposite of what Jack Zucker mentioned to be true for me. I've never had an issue with my clean sound speaking through the mix, but struggled to keep my overdrive tone from washing out and having no 'center' without the pick attack.




I got a bunch of new video from a recent run of gigs with Drew Gress and Vinnie Sperrazza. I haven't decided on what to put out there for the general public, but I think if you follow the links you can check it out.


Here's a short run through a tune of mine on a standard chord progression. The camera man got some good close ups of the thumb technique,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myeuwt8cmSo


Along with struggling to get my overdrive right, dropping the pick also meant losing all those blues-rock cliches that I picked up by osmosis as a teenager. I'm just starting to figure out how to get some more fingers in play to get those sounds again (Jeff Beck and Mark Knopfler seem to have this figured out) In Your Own Sweet Way gets a rocking outro where I get a few more fingers in to the mix.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uCdq_AWXFE


I'm happy with the results I've gotten from giving up the pick. It's become a significant component of my personal sound. If you do other types of gigs (wedding/top 40/pit orchestra, etc) it might make sense to keep a pick in the mix, but there's plenty to be explored on a jazz gig with fingerstyle. Best wishes for your music.


PK


www.paulkogut.com

[hthiew]

I use fingers because I don't know how to use a pick

[sylvain54000]

he told me rest strokes and judge for yourself:

Actually, i use mostly free strokes, except for my index finger that plays sometimes rest strokes sweeping from one string to another downwards.

[bob dullam]

wow. great responses, sylvian you sound great. love the lines over "wave".. Looks like you use fingernails. wish I could. my nails are so soft, they tear way too easily. tried once before. Down side with just finger skin, is that sound is always soft, never super clear. So not sure if I will throw the ol' pick away. might end up with hybrid.

[bob dullam]

here is about where I'm at with the whole picking thing. this is just riffing over "spain" chords. (drum mach. and looper).

on this one I use NO pick. note how muffled the tone is, again I have no finger nails this is p. mazza's "somewher over the rainbow".

and u can see I just don't have the dexterity that I have with a pick.

finally hybrid picking. (to some extent).

[jzucker]

Sounds great Paul. Very abercrombie(ish)

I've been staying out of the forum scene lately (the recent "who eats who's lunch" is a perfect example why), but this topic is personal enough to inspire me to wade back in.


I've been all thumb for the past 5 years or so. I'd always loved Wes, and dug the direction John Abercrombie went in the mid-90's when he dropped the pick, but would always go back to the security of a pick after trying the thumb for a tune or two.


Then I found myself in the middle of a family health care crisis, I dropped out of the scene for close to two years, no gigs and hardly touching the guitar. When I could finally get back to playing, the pick felt like this awkward little piece of plastic, with the thumb, my playing felt much more sincere, connected and honest. So I decided to make a go of it and have been pickless ever since.


My technique ends up being closer to Abercrombie than Wes. Light touch, low action, loud amps. A couple subtle tips: A boost pedal up front can help, John uses a Boss EQ set flat with output cranked, I use a Sarno Earth Drive, again output cranked, and the drive barely cracked. A volume pedal sees a lot of use, the thumb is great for dynamic shadings within a line, but I don't want to hit the strings too hard, if I need an overall increase in volume, I go to the pedal.


It's interesting, I've found the opposite of what Jack Zucker mentioned to be true for me. I've never had an issue with my clean sound speaking through the mix, but struggled to keep my overdrive tone from washing out and having no 'center' without the pick attack.




I got a bunch of new video from a recent run of gigs with Drew Gress and Vinnie Sperrazza. I haven't decided on what to put out there for the general public, but I think if you follow the links you can check it out.


Here's a short run through a tune of mine on a standard chord progression. The camera man got some good close ups of the thumb technique,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myeuwt8cmSo


Along with struggling to get my overdrive right, dropping the pick also meant losing all those blues-rock cliches that I picked up by osmosis as a teenager. I'm just starting to figure out how to get some more fingers in play to get those sounds again (Jeff Beck and Mark Knopfler seem to have this figured out) In Your Own Sweet Way gets a rocking outro where I get a few more fingers in to the mix.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uCdq_AWXFE


I'm happy with the results I've gotten from giving up the pick. It's become a significant component of my personal sound. If you do other types of gigs (wedding/top 40/pit orchestra, etc) it might make sense to keep a pick in the mix, but there's plenty to be explored on a jazz gig with fingerstyle. Best wishes for your music.


PK


www.paulkogut.com

[jzucker]

Actually, i use mostly free strokes, except for my index finger that plays sometimes rest strokes sweeping from one string to another downwards.

That was a horrible typo on my part. I know you use free-strokes. Sorry for the mis-information!

[bob dullam]

what do you guys think of the sound of that joe pass sig. epiphone? obiviously I got rid of the tailpiece, got rid of the pickguard, and knobs. The eastman el ray is REALLY easy and fun to play, but I think the Joe pass sig, sounds better. am chomping on the bit wanting to get a wesmo gibson, or lee ritenour gibson. amp is a line 6 vetta 2. (2 12" speakers). Wish I could combine these two guitars.

[jzucker]

i like the el rey but it's a thinner poppier tone. The epi sounds like a traditional jazz guitar. Nice for the solo tunes.

[bob dullam]

I'm often suprized by the joe p sig. 600.00 retail, the el ray is what, about 2K. I took the el ray to a gig I do every fri. night just me and a singer. She said she liked the joe p sound better. has much more jazz quality. I watched a few bad reviews on youtube bout' the ol' joe p eppy. but I gotta say that for 600.00 (I got this new at a guitar center, much cheaper, cause it just wasn't sellin'). And the other night, I got cudos on the joe P. just going through a roland xl80 1x12" speaker. Wish I had an L-5 to do a side by side compare.

[Infamous B.O.P]

hey there guitar cyber world!

i am new to the forum
i have been going through this struggle with my pick vs. fingers for a long time
finally, last year i figured out some very basic principles that have really helped along this line of discussion
i wrote out a series of exercises and decided, hey why not make this a book?
i just put it on amazon a couple of days ago

i now have written a series of exercises as a follow up to the previously mentioned material that brings in exactly as was discussed above in terms of sweeping with the thumb and index that should be on amazon in a few months

as far as the primer material goes, you can probably get a good idea from the "look inside feature"

check it out

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Fundame...1463493&sr=1-1

[TLerch]

I use a pick sometimes but prefer to use my fingers as much as possible, here is a short vid of my single string approach.

thanks for watching
Tim

[edh]

Hi Tim, thanks for the video link. What, in your opinoin, is the advantage of finger style over picking?

[TLerch]

Edh, I just like the feeling and sound of it, it's more work, I loose my touch very quickly if I don't stay on top of it. I am a pretty polyphonic/contrapuntal player so fingers just work better most of the time, I still use a pick a lot as well depending on the style of music etc, when I play with a pick I always use my fingers as well (hybrid) and my hand position is exactly the same as when I play without a pick. I feel more rhythmically connected to the groove and the guitar when I play Fingerstyle since I don't use nails my hand is right down there close in. It's quite immediate.
Hope that helps
Tim

[armando]

Hi Tim, can you please explain your right hand picking for those bebop lines. It seems to be mainly alt thumb and index?

[edh]

@Tim, it does help. thanks

edh