Which gauge of strings do jazz guitarists prefer?

[HighSpeedSpoon]

There has been some talk in this and other threads about driving an archtop and how it depends on string gauge, mass, and tension. I don't know of any definitive science on the subject, but I have attached an excerpt from a 1999 D'Addario catalog which gives this formula relating string tension and mass (weight):

T (Tension) = (UW x (2 x L x F)^2) / 386.4

UW- Unit Weight, expressed in pounds per linear inch (lb/in).
L- Scale Length
F- Frequency or pitch

So for a given guitar and pitch, changing the tension changes the mass (UW) by the same percentage. Changing the string diameter - with strings of the same density alloy - changes the mass by a bigger percentage. For the mathematically minded, the mass changes with the square of the diameter.

[Hoji]

I put the GB14s on my epi joe pass. They feel nice to me - pretty easy to play. My sound is rather dull and plunky, though. Probably the guitar...

[AmundLauritzen]

I used .15's for a year. Then my left hand started hurting real bad, so I went down to .14's. I recently switched to .13's and suddenly my time got so much better. Still not as good as I'd like to, but the difference is significant.
The sacrifice in tone? Not as much as you'd think. To me, the .13's still bring out the qualities of the archtop that I like. Actually, I can tell less of a difference from .14's to .13's than I could from .15's to .14's. Actually, the .15's became too muddy for chords.
I was on a gig and comped a singer, and as I hit a low bass note, stuff in the room started vibrating!
There is a point where it becomes just too much.
Those were the GHS Pat Martino Custom strings by the way. Pat makes them sing, but he seems to be playing mostly solidbodies these days. Hollowbodies have enough a problem with feedback already, and .15's definately made life harder in that regard.

I've got some strings on the way right now. I have to order online because the music shops here couldn't care less about jazz musicians. Everybody is supposed to be a poor imitation of SRV around here, so you can't find strings fit for an archtop.

I'm trying out La Bella .12's, Infeld Bebop .12's(currently using bebop .13's), Gibson L5 strings .12's and Newtone Archtop .13's.

I'll let you know what I think when I've tried out the switch from .13's to .12's if you want the perspective of someone who has been playing mainly heavy strings.

I've got mixed feelings about trying .12's. Part of me tells me they'll probably compromise the archtop qualities, while at the same time I think my time will improve.
We'll see

[jorgemg1984]

A little off topic but I am curious - why does your time suffer with 015s vs 013s? (also curious about your roundwounds shootout)

[AlsoRan]

I used .15's for a year. Then my left hand started hurting real bad, so I went down to .14's.

Why was your hand hurting, Mr. A? Were you trying to bend the strings? Was it the to pressing (fretting) of the strings?

Sorry if I am off-topic a little as well.

[SamBooka]

If you want LESS tension try the Labella black nylon tape wound strings. Very low tesion despite the string sizes being used.

'Mike

Are they? Not disagreeing with you but I thever thought of them as low tension (let alone very low tension) . The only 14s I have used are Labella blacks, Newtone Archtop and TIGB114s so my experience is limited.

The newtones (RW by the way) are in my mind defnitely the lowest tension followed by the TIs. Of the 3 the LaBellas are the highest tension.

For the record on my Epi Emp Reg (25.5 scale) I use the Labellas
On my Es125/164 I use Chromes 13s with a 14/18 substitution.

[AmundLauritzen]

jorgemg1984:
I'm not sure exactly why, but from what it felt like when I was playing I'd guess it was because the added string thickness gave much more resistance which in turn made me tense up when picking. The timing issues became most prominent when I was playing double time lines, so if my technique was better then maybe I would be able to compensate. It was clear though, that the timing was mostly depending on the right hand.

AlsoRan:
Yes, it was when fretting, especially when barring chords. What was interesting to me to notice is that even though it hurt every now and then, the added string tension gave me a much more precise fretting hand. I notice it's easier to "slip off" string with lower gauges, especially when you're playing solidbodies with .11, .10's or even lower. So since the string is harder to bend with the higher gauge, that also means it'll "stay in place" easier so you can get away with less fret precision.
The right hand usually is the weakest one with guitarists, at least with me. And I noticed that starting off with higher gauges was not conductive to developing good right hand technique. To me, I guess having gone the route from high to low gauge, I'm now trying to go from low to high gauge slowly.
I think it's nice to keep trying different things. I think that for each player, there is an ideal string gauge and pick type waiting to be discovered because our hands are so different, as our musical personalities. The more experimenting, the more we are likely to stumble upon our ideal combination.

[jorgemg1984]

if you have right hand issues than using heavy strings is probably not a good idea. My right hand is not perfect but I have been working on that a lot in the last few months. I still need to improve it but I don't fell heavy strings are stopping me from getting better. Thanks for your thoughts.

[JazzMaster14]

Just picked up an Epi Es-175, that I will be using only for jazz guitar. Specifically I like playing chord melodies in the style of Johnny Smith, Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel and so on... What string gauge would you guys recommend for this style?

[Bosko]

Play it with what it is currently set up with for a couple of weeks and go from there. I like these: Thomastik JS113 Medium Flatwound Jazz Swing Electric Guitar Strings - 13's.

[JakeAcci]

Those guys probably played 13s, maybe 12-14 as a wider range. Confirmation?

[coolvinny]

To my ears, it is usually the B and E strings that sound a bit thin, sometimes the G also. So I'd start with a gauge like 12's (TI Swing's are great) and then if you're happy with the low E to G, incrementally swap out the B and high E until you feel like those strings can hold their own. I'm up to 15 for my high E and 18 for my B - they really sing now.

[JazzMaster14]

Thanks so much for the replies, guys. I'll definitely check out those .13's, Bosko!

[ncs]

Hello all,
for an archtop I always would use heavy gauges because these only exploit the resonance of hollow body guitars.
Wes Montgomery for example used flatwounds from .14 to 0.58. I use flatwounds from 0.15 to 0.56 (on a Gibson L-5) for many years and didn't find better ones so far (LaBella 20PH) - but perhaps I am not up-to-date!?

[Sam Sherry]

Congrats on your new 175. Play it long and hard!

Strings is, as you'd guess, a matter of personal preference. John McLaughlin uses .009s and flies like the wind. Pat Martino strings .015+ and flies like the wind.

I use D'Addario "Jazz Light" set, .012-.052, because they're nice, available and fairly cheap. I have one guitar which I string .013-.056 just because that top likes to get kicked. I ALWAYS string with a wound G -- I don't bend much and prefer the extra tension.

A few related points:

. Don't forget to take the foam padding out from under the bridge. Sorry if that's obvious but some people do forget and their guitars sound like . . . foam padding.

. Remember to adjust your pole-pieces. If you play wound G your G-string poles will be high -- probably as high as your high E string. If you play plain G it should be low, probably as low as your low E. Use your ears. It's fool-proof; you can't screw it up.

. Remember to adjust your pickup height. There are two general approaches. Lots of people adjust so that the bridge pickup is about as close as it can get without woofing or choking, and the neck pickup is as low as it takes to generate the same volume as the bridge. Another approach is to set the neck where you dig the sound and who cares if the bridge is quieter. Use your ears and find what you like -- forget general approaches. It's pretty fool-proof; you can't screw it up permanently unless you somehow strip the screw-threads, which you won't.

. Remember to adjust your intonation if you change gauges. If you play wound G your G-string saddle will be close to the pickups. If you play plain G is should be back away from the pickups. Use a tuner; match the octave harmonic with the fretted note. It's fool-proof; you can't screw it up.

Don't pay someone to do this stuff. Setting pickups is a matter of personal taste; tweaking for personal taste is fun. All these adjustments are just a normal part of owning a guitar.

Sorry I rattle on. Have fun and report back.

[ChuckCorbis]

Firstly, there are 3 choices of string construction. Flat wound, round wound and half round. You probably want flats for what you are trying to do. Flats have considerably more tension. D'Addario calls their flat wound "Chromes". IMO, going too heavy is not good for phrasing and modern jazz guitar technique. If you check out George Benson and Pat Martino's gauges you'll see they are very similar. Pat Metheny's are considerably lighter in gauge. Metheny's are 11- 49 at present. GB and Martino's while being heavy on the high E and B (14 and 18) are considerably lighter than the standard medium gauges of D'Addario packages on the G,D,A,E. Anybody know GB and Martino's gauges? Standard 13-56 and 14-58 Flatwounds are way out of whack for string tension if you use the D'Addario. Can't believe people are using them still. I would start out with the D'Addario Chrome flat wound 12s which are a great value and price as Sam mentioned. If you want more meat, change out the E and B for a 13 and 17.


EDIT- I found the gauge breakdown/comparison. String diameter doesn't necessarily correspond to string tension. It usually does but different makers use different materials. That being said, here are some specs. George Benson(Thomastik), Pat Martino(GHS), and the 13-56 D'Addario Chromes:

.014 .015 .013
.018 .017 .017
.021w .024w .026w
.031 .032 .035
.041 .042 .045
.055 .052 .056

and finally the Chromes Pat Metheny used on his 175:

.011
.015
.022w
.030
.040
.050

All 3 (GB, PMart, PMeth) use a 24.75 string measure. Shorter string measure=Less tension.

My recollection is that Johnny Smith had a 25. string measure, Barney Kessel 25.5 and Kenny Burell 24.75 Seemed like Johnny had heavy strings 14s but down real low with less relief in the truss rod. He could slide 4 note chords up 12 frets with ease. That's what I'm hearing (IMO) on 'Moonlight in Vermont'.Barney sounds like he used 13s on the Julie London stuff and Kenny sounds lighter, like he's using 11 or 12s. Wes sounds like he had his truss rod tight (later in career) and the action flat and even with the heavy strings (14-58). Interestingly, according to Jon Raney's blog (N.Y.jazz pianist-Jimmy's son), Jimmy Raney (12s) had his action a little higher on his 175 than you would think so he could use finger pressure to squeeze out his sound. Johnny's not squeezing it out the same way as Jimmy in other words. The 3 guys the OP mentioned above used flat wound strings. The string gauge, string measure, string construction, truss rod adjustment and string height are crucial to these guys sound, as is the way their frets are dressed and the size of the frets. Sorry for the OT. Seems like this stuff isn't hashed out all the time. It's a big deal for your sound IME.

PS.............Just a little side note:

George Benson and Johnny Smith were both quite adept at doing work on their guitars. GB did a lot of his work (set ups, fret dressing, truss rod adjustments etc.) on his guitars in the old days. Johnny had his own guitar shop in Colorado Springs later in life and was a Luthier. Trivia: Johnny did not injure his left finger with a saw after his retirement in his shop. He did it while flying his plane and adjusting his seat. It was repaired surgically and took some time to heal and required quite a bit of PT.

[Jazzman35]

Is there any average string gauge for jazz guitars? Is there any difference between an archtop vs solid body in gauge preference?

[dragger201]

IMO......general rule of thumb......bigger strings make bigger sounds, acoustically.

As for average string size......from what I've seen, there ain't no such thing. There is a range though that seems pretty close. On the thin side 10-48 upto 13-56. Myself I like the flatwound 13-56s.

But that's just my opinion, and like my butt, everybody else has one..........

[mr quick]

I've always used round-wounds, but I just recently switched to .12 flatwound D'addarios. I'm considering going all the way to .13s, but I think I'd need to try it... My guitar teacher uses .13s if I'm not mistaken. Flatwounds, of course.

2019 edit: nope rounds are it

[vinlander]

Also depends on what guitars.
For my Archtops
15-56 flat-wound on my 25.5 scale gives me the best combination of tone and tension (can't stand dental floss on archtops).
On my semi and solid body I alternate between 10-46 and 11-50 round wound because I also play other stuff than jazz on them (rock and metal)

[jorgemg1984]

12 rounds with the first two strings changed to 014 and 018.

[jazzuki]

On all my guitars/archtops . Daddario Chrome flats 12/52's.

[Longways to Go]

+1 on 12 rounds with 14 & 18.
I also use 12 rounds without the heavy top strings, and also 13 flats.
Different flavors for different guitars. I'm leaning more toward rounds these days.

[TOMMO]

Interestin and hoping for more replies since I have tried and experimented what type of string suits me in my attempts at playing jazz.
Currenty I have three guitars strung up with sets of .011 pure nickel roundwounds. I have set up another one with .012 flatwounds and can't seem to get used to their feeling - since there is more surface on the wound strings compared to roundwounds they seem to inhibit me regarding smooth transitions from position to position.....

anybody else feel that way?

Guitars are all of the ES 335 type....

[Para]

I was using 13-53 TI flats but recently changed to 12-50 TI flats.