Fingerstyle is the right way to play the guitar...

[sjl]

Such a poor comment at the end of this video:

Laurindo Almeida was great (by the way).

[NSJ]

Such a poor comment at the end of this video:

Laurindo Almeida was great (by the way).

If one views the guitar as a polyphonic instrument, is he even remotely wrong? Of course not. We have an entire lap piano at our disposal, at all times. How cool is that???

[sjl]

Well, you can do that with a plectrum in your thumb or with and hybrid technique.

By the way, What's the origin of the "lap piano" term?

Thanks.

[mr. beaumont]

Think George Van Eps coined it.

I think there's multiple right ways to attack the guitar, depending on the tone needed.

[bondmorkret]

There's a time and a place for all guitar techniques. Seems like a strange sweeping statement to make! I'm pretty terrible at fingerstyle though, so its all about hybrid picking for me!

[sjl]

I find easier fingerstyle than hybrid!
We are all different.
I am spanish and my be is suposed that i have to speak well about my countrymen, but "el maestro" Segovia wasn't famous by his humor. I've read that he didn't like Chet Atkins just because he used a thumb pick, that simple.
Older flamenco stylers didn't accept Paco de Lucía for his posture. May be Wes would have to be killed for using only the thumb.
The problem is that this kind of comments are said today as well.

[Dave70]

Ha! Someone posted this vid elsewhere earlier... yeah the host obviously didn't care for rock or folk or skiffle!
Johnny Smith sure played well with a pick too.

[ecj]

I like fingerstyle playing for solo guitar stuff, personally, but it's not like the guitar somehow becomes magically "unpolyphonic" when you use a pick. I can still play 6 notes at the same time with it.

[fumblefingers]

yeah but when you do its homophonic, right? in other words you're just strumming big old chord, and then you'll do the same with another chord, and then another. and even if you arpeggiate its an even bet that its still being done in a homophonic vein.

when I think about it, most classical guitar music is homophonic anyway, isn't it?

when we play with a pick we typically play one function in a homophonic setting - either (1) a melody or lead line, or (2) accompaniment.

its possible to cover both functions with a pick of course, its just easier with "4 picks" (thumb and three fingers)

[monk]

I like fingerstyle playing for solo guitar stuff, personally, but it's not like the guitar somehow becomes magically "unpolyphonic" when you use a pick. I can still play 6 notes at the same time with it.

Not really. No matter how fast you move the pick to play a chord, the notes will always be sequential. One after another, not simultaneous.

There's always a trade off.

Playing chord melody with a pick gives a nice percussive snap to the sound. Playing fingerstyle provides individual control over each voice in the chord and allows for variations in dynamics such as having the outer voices louder than the inner voices or vice versa.

[jseaberry]

[randalljazz]

yeah but when you do its homophonic, right? in other words you're just strumming big old chord, and then you'll do the same with another chord, and then another. and even if you arpeggiate its an even bet that its still being done in a homophonic vein.

when I think about it, most classical guitar music is homophonic anyway, isn't it?

when we play with a pick we typically play one function in a homophonic setting - either (1) a melody or lead line, or (2) accompaniment.

its possible to cover both functions with a pick of course, its just easier with "4 picks" (thumb and three fingers)

depends on the field...if you include all beginner and "amateur" directed studies, perhaps. certainly not, if you are talking about the repertoire of concert professional.

[sjl]

Amazing!
Stochelo has to watch this video.

[fumblefingers]

depends on the field...if you include all beginner and "amateur" directed studies, perhaps. certainly not, if you are talking about the repertoire of concert professional.

after the Baroque you mean? I attend a lot of concerts and most of them are predominated with 19th and 20th century stuff, with some Baroque and Classical included (a fair amount of which are transcriptions - i.e. not really "guitar music"). the players decide what to include in their programs and there just seems to be less and less of the 18th century and earlier works. my observation has been that audiences clearly respond to the "newer" stuff more enthusiastically. from memory and without doing any specific analysis, the 19th century and later stuff seems mostly homophonic to me.

as far as students and amateurs go, a well rounded repertoire is still the expectation. personally, I am playing from all periods but am only an intermediate classical guitar student as of yet. i'm playing an old lute piece, a Handel piece, several classical studies, then more modern Spanish stuff, and finally some bluesy/swingy/rag timey stuff too. Bach is coming up at the next ABRSM level. should be fun.

[jseaberry]

Amazing!
Stochelo has to watch this video.

Yup. So that should end all the talk about how you MUST do this or that, Mr. Almeida......oops, he's not here....sorry.

[ecj]

yeah but when you do its homophonic, right? in other words you're just strumming big old chord, and then you'll do the same with another chord, and then another. and even if you arpeggiate its an even bet that its still being done in a homophonic vein.

when I think about it, most classical guitar music is homophonic anyway, isn't it?

when we play with a pick we typically play one function in a homophonic setting - either (1) a melody or lead line, or (2) accompaniment.

its possible to cover both functions with a pick of course, its just easier with "4 picks" (thumb and three fingers)

I see your point, and agree that fingerpicking is the best way to employ this (which is why I use it for solo guitar), but a lot of the classical guitar repertoire has two lines that move in contrast to one another. Segovia took tons of those Bach four-part inventions and arranged them for classical guitar. Isn't that kind of counterpoint the definition of polyphonic music?

[ecj]

Not really. No matter how fast you move the pick to play a chord, the notes will always be sequential. One after another, not simultaneous.

I see what you're saying, but I'd argue that the extent to which this is true is not really relevant to whether or not you are playing something in a homo or polyphonic manner. I mean, if you play a counterpoint with a pick, you are playing one note slightly before the other, but with a fast attack it's functionally operating as a single strike. We don't notate a chord stab as an ascending 64th note arpeggio.

[fumblefingers]

I see your point, and agree that fingerpicking is the best way to employ this (which is why I use it for solo guitar), but a lot of the classical guitar repertoire has two lines that move in contrast to one another. Segovia took tons of those Bach four-part inventions and arranged them for classical guitar. Isn't that kind of counterpoint the definition of polyphonic music?

yeah, I mean if we're talking about polyphony then we're talking about polyphony.

i'm just seeing less and less of it in the concert hall. I hate to say this (I guess?) but I think it really bores people. it sounds old (it is old)

Audiences seem to overwhelmingly prefer 19th and 20th century stuff - as long as its melodic, maybe romantic, and not too atonal and contemporary, etc. not really a surprise, is it?

[ecj]

yeah, I mean if we're talking about polyphony then we're talking about polyphony.

i'm just seeing less and less of it in the concert hall. I hate to say this (I guess?) but I think it really bores people. it sounds old (it is old)

Audiences seem to overwhelmingly prefer 19th and 20th century stuff - as long as its melodic, maybe romantic, and not too atonal and contemporary, etc. not really a surprise, is it?

I'm not that familiar with the classical guitar world, so I don't really have anything to add here. That's kind of disappointing, because Bach is, by far, my favorite of the classical composers. I love the sound of baroque counterpoint. It's just so...perfect, how things move apart then come together, etc. I think if I were a classical guitarist I'd only play Bach, which is why I'm not a classical guitarist The Spanish repertoire doesn't do a whole lot for me.

[monk]

I see what you're saying, but I'd argue that the extent to which this is true is not really relevant to whether or not you are playing something in a homo or polyphonic manner. I mean, if you play a counterpoint with a pick, you are playing one note slightly before the other, but with a fast attack it's functionally operating as a single strike. We don't notate a chord stab as an ascending 64th note arpeggio.

No, we don't but then notation has never been a completely accurate means of recording music. Only an approximation. Regardless of how it might be notated, playing a chord with a pick is still sequential. You can't outrun physics.

[fumblefingers]

I'm not that familiar with the classical guitar world, so I don't really have anything to add here. That's kind of disappointing, because Bach is, by far, my favorite of the classical composers. I love the sound of baroque counterpoint. It's just so...perfect, how things move apart then come together, etc. I think if I were a classical guitarist I'd only play Bach, which is why I'm not a classical guitarist The Spanish repertoire doesn't do a whole lot for me.

That's too bad. Have you explored Rodrigo, Turina, Torroba, Tarrega, Albeniz? A lot of rich music there.

Then of course we have the Latin composers Villa Lobos, Ponce, Brouwer, and many others.

[bobby d]

A little closed minded since there are many other things that can be done with a guitar. Fingerstyle opens up a lot, but well... the fingers on my right hand won't ever move as fast as this player's.

[JimBobWay]

I love dialogues like this. In particular, this one shows that even the greats have their prejudices. My earliest influences were all plectrum monsters, but I was fortunate to hear John Williams in concert and he made it look so easy I decided 5 picks would be better. I still play with a pick now and then, but I do enjoy the broader spectrum that fingerstyle allows. Whatever works!

[ecj]

That's too bad. Have you explored Rodrigo, Turina, Torroba, Tarrega, Albeniz? A lot of rich music there.

Then of course we have the Latin composers Villa Lobos, Ponce, Brouwer, and many others.

I'm passingly familiar with the stuff. Recuerdos de la Alhambra is really pretty, and there are some other beautiful tunes. I just tend to be more attracted to the Baroque stuff for some reason.

90% of my listening time is devoted to jazz, since that's my favorite stuff to hear and study.

[ecj]

No, we don't but then notation has never been a completely accurate means of recording music. Only an approximation. Regardless of how it might be notated, playing a chord with a pick is still sequential. You can't outrun physics.

I guess I don't get the point of this quibble. You don't have to even be able to play two notes at exactly the same time to play polyphonic music. You could easily have contrapuntal lines moving in some kind of rhythmic displacement and still have polyphony going on.