Archtop with tweeter - yay or nay?

[Woody Sound]

If you have an amp with a switchable or adjustable tweeter (Henriksen, etc), do you use it with your archtop? And whether yes or no, why?

[Stringswinger]

I never use the tweeter with an archtop, but I do like them with a Gypsy guitar or my Classical.

I like my archtops to sound "dark" and the tweeter defeats that for me.

[Doctor Jeff]

In my experience adjusting the tweeter on my Fishman Artist makes little difference to guitars with magnetic pickups, specifically archtops. I have read that magnetic pickups tend to produce frequencies that are not affected by the tweeter range of this amplifier.

(I think the tweeter affects 15-20kHz. IIUC most mag pickups drop off after 5k. Can correct me if I’m wrong.)

The main reason to adjust the tweeter on the Fishman is to add brightness or remove piezo quack when using a piezo pickup on an acoustic guitar.

I tend to leave the tweeter at 12 o’clock (50%) almost all the time.

This may apply only to the Fishman and not other amps.

[Woody Sound]

In my experience adjusting the tweeter on my Fishman Artist makes little difference to guitars with magnetic pickups, specifically archtops. I have read that magnetic pickups tend to produce frequencies that are not affected by the tweeter range of this amplifier.

(I think the tweeter affects 15-20kHz. IIUC most mag pickups drop off after 5k. Can correct me if I’m wrong.)

The main reason to adjust the tweeter on the Fishman is to add brightness or remove piezo quack when using a piezo pickup on an acoustic guitar.

I tend to leave the tweeter at 12 o’clock (50%) almost all the time.

This may apply only to the Fishman and not other amps.

I get it. But then why do archtops sound so much brighter through FRFR?

[sgosnell]

I use the tweeter on my RE Stealth 10ER cabinet. It's just too dark for my taste without some tweeter. It's adjustable, and I tend to run it between 1/4 and 1/2 up, depending on the head, the guitar, and my taste that day. The Eminence Beta speaker that's stock doesn't have a lot of treble.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I think the tweeter affects 15-20kHz.

Most tweeters start putting out usable signal between 1.5 and 2 kHz. You can’t just wire a tweeter in as a second full range driver, so some kind of a crossover is required if only to block frequencies below its range. Lows may not be heard coming from a tweeter, but the signal energy is still heating up the coil in it and intermodulating with the audible frequencies it’s emitting. Filtering out the lows and mids protects the tweeter and lets it sound its best.

Similarly, there’s no reason to run the full spectrum through the woofer, since it won’t put out usable sound energy at high frequencies. Once it hits its -6 dB point on the downslope, it emits less and less as frequency rises. But there’s still audible energy in the mids, which are also coming out of the tweeter at low levels. Without controlling the drop off from the woofer and the rise frome the tweeter, there will be nonlinearity of frequency response and phase effects from interaction between the two. So some kind of a crossover is needed to balance the dropping frequency response of the woofer with the rising response of the tweeter.

This can be as simple as a capacitor in series with the signal wire to the tweeter. A cap is a first order high pass filter, which means a slope of 6 dB per octave below and up to the frequency at which it passes signal linearly. More sophisticated crossovers will drop off the output of the woofer and ramp up that of the tweeter so they “cross” at the frequency desired by the engineer who designed it. The rates of rise and fall vary with the type of crossover used. Crossovers and filters all introduce phase shift, so there are many compromises in both design and sound quality.

So a tweeter that has a -3dB range from 1500 to 20,000 Hz could kick in at a “crossover” frequency anywhere from its own lower limit to whatever the designer wants to use. But most become active somewhere between 1500 and 2 kHz in 2 way use (i.e. with only a woofer and no midrange driver).

[omphalopsychos]

I like the adjustable tweeter on my raezers edge cabinet. I keep it on but at a very low output level, just barely enough to add a little air and dimension to the tone. I don’t like the full blast tweeter on my henriksens. I wish Henriksen had an adjustable tweeter. Instead I just keep the henriksen tweeter off at all times.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I like the adjustable tweeter on my raezers edge cabinet. I keep it on but at a very low output level, just barely enough to add a little air and dimension to the tone. I don’t like the full blast tweeter on my henriksens. I wish Henriksen had an adjustable tweeter. Instead I just keep the henriksen tweeter off at all times.

I leave it off on my Blu when playing an archtop. But it’s great for chimey Dumble-like tone with a ZenDrive or similar effect, especially with a solid body or thin semi.

[Woody Sound]

I plugged my Sadowsky into the GenzBenz acoustic amp and it sounded really nice, especially for 4/4 FG-type comping

[Cunamara]

I get it. But then why do archtops sound so much brighter through FRFR?

Because guitar speakers typically drop off frequency response around 4500-5000 Hz; an FRFR speaker might go up to 20,000 Hz. For many electric guitars, that frequency range isn't particularly flattering to the instrument and we are just used to hearing electric guitar without that high-end sheen. Acoustic guitars, however, tend to sound bright because we do hear the frequencies in that range coming naturally from the instrument.

One of my favorite sounds has been my old SansAmp Para Driver DI into an 8" QSC FRFR speaker cab at a rehearsal space. It manages to nicely balance the traditional guitar sound with a little bit of added airiness on the top end. I have an Alto TS110a which just doesn't seem to sound quite as nice as the QSC.

[Slpytym]

I like the sound of the tweeter in my Genzler, but I do turn it down 15% when playing a Heritage Mimi Fox through it. With my Acoustic guitar, though, I level it out. BTW, I generally lurk in the background of these forums, and I have learned to have incredible respect for all of you, your knowledge, and the playing that I have heard!

[Danny W.]

When I gigged with Raezer's Edge ER cabs I typically turned the tweeter control up about 1/4. This added balance to the sound and eliminated any vestigial boxiness. My AI cabs don't have continuous tweeter controls. The Ten2 cabs have a switch with Off, -6dB and 0dB settings; I use whichever sounds best on stage, at home I have them set to Off. The Doubleshot doesn't have a tweeter, but it has a midrange with OdB and -6dB settings. I select the former for big band and the latter for small group. The Corus used to have an on/off tweeter that I killed playing rock through a modeler. Rick Jones sent me a new midrange with extended frequency response, since replacements for the tweeter were no longer available. It sounds great but I still have the original midrange in case I change my mind.

Danny W.

[Woody Sound]

I plugged my Sadowsky into the GenzBenz acoustic amp and it sounded really nice, especially for 4/4 FG-type comping

Edit: Genzler Acoustic Array Pro

[dconeill]

If you have an amp with a switchable or adjustable tweeter (Henriksen, etc), do you use it with your archtop? And whether yes or no, why?

Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. Depends what I'm hearing each time I use the amp, what my mood is at the time, and whether I've been able to fool myself that I can hear that high anyway.

[Woody Sound]

I like the sound of the tweeter in my Genzler, but I do turn it down 15% when playing a Heritage Mimi Fox through it. With my Acoustic guitar, though, I level it out. BTW, I generally lurk in the background of these forums, and I have learned to have incredible respect for all of you, your knowledge, and the playing that I have heard!

What Genzler model has an adjustable tweeter?

[MarkA]

Yes with RE Nighthawk with either my ‘36 L-5 or Holo, where I am looking for an acoustic sound with an Ischell or AT-831b.

[KirkP]

I have an outboard tweeter (Henriksen Tweety) that I mostly use when I’ve plugged in an acoustic guitar. But I’ll occasionally use it with magnetic pickups to add a tiny bit of chime, but rolling the amp’s treble back more than usual. It’s hardly noticeable, so I rarely bother when away from home.

[Spook410]

Running into a pretty good FRFR..

Not sure the sounds above 5khz coming from a humbucker or single coil are very flattering. With my Gibson archtops I like to cut everything above that. Even a bit lower. On carved Benedetto copies you might think something a bit brighter would be called for given a guitar with an overall more acoustic tone. Especially with an Armstrong hand wound pickup. But usually, not so much. Not sure why but gotta follow where your ears lead.

On the other hand, with a microphone or acoustic pickup the fuller range starts sounding pretty good. Assuming you're doing something where you want the additional harmonics and percussive tones. Usually drop the filter altogether and selectively EQ the highs instead.

[zephyrregent]

I don't use the tweeter on my Henriksen 112ER or Blu 6. The tones/highs/frequencies are the ones I try to avoid.

[sgosnell]

I think the correct answer to this is "try it and see". If you like it, use it, if you don't, then don't. You cannot extrapolate other people's preferences to yours.