Cure for a weak high E string?

[JazzDaddyD]

I have wonderful guitar built by Ed Shaefer that sounds and feels just right. Acoustically it is balanced across the strings, but amplified the high E string is noticeably weak. The B string is pretty good, but the volume and substance of the high E drops of big time. It is strung with Chromes with a .013" high E. The pickup is a Seymour Duncan JS custom made for Ed, and does not have adjustable pole pieces.

I have had a similar issue, but not to this extent, with at least one other archtop ('51 Epi Triumph w/ Biltloft CC). Pete gave me some teeny magnets to attach under the B and E strings to boost the signal, but they fell off quickly and were sadly not recovered.

The SD pickup is epoxied to the underside of the pick guard. I don't know that I can get it un-epoxied (in order to re-mount at a more favorable position) with out serious damage.

So- have you experience this or similar issues? I am looking for a nice thick high E.

Thanks!

[Cunamara]

Well, my first thought is trying a heavier gauge E string, maybe a .015, to see if that will beef it up some. Cheap, simple, easy. My favorite way to fix things.

Otherwise, I would wonder about looking for a way to shim the pickup (maybe the whole pickguard) out from the neck a little bit. It may be that the string is falling outside of the magnetic field of the pickup and moving it over a tad might improve response.

Another option might be bending the bracket a little bit to point the bass side of the pickup down away from the low strings, basically compensating by weakening the response to the strings other than the high E, but that also feels suboptimal.

[marcwhy]

[Ooh, which Schaefer do you have?? He makes some wonderful instruments!]

[sgosnell]

The cheapest way to a thicker sound is a thicker pick. Try thicker picks of different materials. The pick can make a huge difference in tone.

[JazzDaddyD]

Yes the pick does make a big difference, but I'm using a monster, no thicker made. Probably-

[JCat]

There are several possible reasons why the treble strings sound thin and weak and the problem is either of acoustic or electrical nature (or both).
Here's my list of common culprits.

Acoustic problems (mechanical vibrations interfering with the string)

The "witness points" (the edge of the nut slot and the edge of the bridge slot that connect the vibrating string) must be the highest point in the slot to ensure solid contact with the string. The slot must match the gauge. If you want to change string gauge you have to address the string slots.

String slot friction too high, i.e the string binds in the nut or in the bridge slot.

String anchor points (tuners and tailpiece); ball end not seated, small parts rattling etc.

Poor bridge setup including but not limited to small parts rattling and buzzing.

Tailpiece assembly buzzing

Pickup assembly ( e.g a humbucker attached to a pickup ring with springs) buzzing

Truss rod not tight and buzzing

Strings worn

Amplification problems:

Mid scooped EQ boosts bass and treble and attenuates the fundamental frequencies of the treble strings. Due to the nature of a passive tone stack, the midrange gets scooped out when you turn up amp bass and treble. Rule of thumb; bass heavy EQ settings make the treble strings sound trebly.

Poor pickup adjustment, e.g PU too close to the bass strings and or treble side of PU too low

Poor string-to-string output balance due to poor pole piece adjustment

Signal chain volume control unbalanced, i.e amp volume too low and guitar volume too high. Roll back your guitar volume and tone controls to roll off some treble.

Increase amp volume to gain lower mids.

Speaker not suitable for your application

Instrument cable not ideal for your application

Clean jacks

Good luck

[rpjazzguitar]

I've had a number of guitars with what seemed like a tinny or fizzy sounding high E string, especially past the 9th fret or so. Of course, I don't really know if that's what you're describing.

I tried various things, including meticulous fretwork, every combination of pickup and pole piece height, different string brands and gauges, reslotting bridge saddles and maybe things I can't remember.

Eventually, it seemed to me that the sound I didn't like was in the nature of most (not all) of my guitars and the way to tame it was to roll off the treble with the guitar's tone control. I think that the guitars that didn't have the problem were voiced dark, like my 2009 D'Angelico EXDC (Made in Korea model).

So that was it. Less treble.

[Avery Roberts]

Sometimes the acoustic sound from the guitar interferes with the electric sound from the amplifier resulting in a partial phase cancellation. To check for this record the guitar with the microphone right up against the speaker so that the microphone is picking up none of the acoustic sound from the guitar, and afterwards listen to the playback.

[garybaldy]

I had that with an Atilla Zoller floating pickup. The guitar was fine after I changed the pickup to a cheap Ibanez Johnny Smith style pickup.

[aquin43]

If the pickup is properly centred on the strings, It could be that the internal pole for the top string is misaligned or not properly magnetised. Swap the 1st string into the 6th string position to try what it sounds like over a known working pole position.

[sgosnell]

The OP said the pickup has no polepieces, so presumably a rail-type, which would make string placement irrelevant. But I haven't seen the inside of the pickup, nor even the outside, so I could be wrong about that. All of the things listed by JCat are also possibilities, and I think I would first investigate the nut and saddle slots. It's all too easy to get a nut slot that isn't completely straight, so that the highest point is actually further back, which can cause aberrant vibration of the string. But all those, and more, are possibilities. I've even seen other things in the room vibrating sympathetically and causing strange (at least to me) sounds, which seemed to come from the guitar or the amp although they actually didn't.

[aquin43]

The OP said the pickup has no polepieces, so presumably a rail-type, which would make string placement irrelevant. But I haven't seen the inside of the pickup, nor even the outside, so I could be wrong about that.

You may be correct but it is such a simple test and would give a definite answer to whether it is a problem with the pickup. It is hard to think of anything else that would weaken just the electric sound of the whole range of the top string. The OP mentions no problems with the acoustic sound which would surely be most the sensitive to setup errors.

[mr. beaumont]

If the pickup is properly centred on the strings, It could be that the internal pole for the top string is misaligned or not properly magnetised. Swap the 1st string into the 6th string position to try what it sounds like over a known working pole position.

This is a good idea...maybe even just loosen the E and B and try the E string in the B slot. Don't even need to restring then.

Then, if the E still sounds weak, try the thicker gauge string. I use a thicker E on all of my guitars, really like the sound and feel.

If it doesn't sound weak, then you know something is up with the pickup.

Highly recommend making a recording too, sometimes our ears can lie to us. Using a simple program like Audacity you should be able to tell if the signal is actually stronger when the string swaps placement.

[hotpepper01]

My 2cts: Replace the high E string for a fresh one. You never know, might just be a faulty string. I had that once and a fresh string was the cure.
Another way is trying the weaken the signal of the other strings. Is the pickup level with the guitar top? Or is the bass side higher?

[AKA]

New pickguard + new pickup with adjustable pole pieces?

AKA

[jazzshrink]

[RJVB]

New pickguard + new pickup with adjustable pole pieces?

Or ... use the archtop as the proper acoustic guitar it apparently is, and get a proven off-the-shelf e-guitar for any electric needs?

[pingu]

I have wonderful guitar built by Ed Shaefer that sounds and feels just right. Acoustically it is balanced across the strings, but amplified the high E string is noticeably weak. The B string is pretty good, but the volume and substance of the high E drops of big time. It is strung with Chromes with a .013" high E. The pickup is a Seymour Duncan JS custom made for Ed, and does not have adjustable pole pieces.

I have had a similar issue, but not to this extent, with at least one other archtop ('51 Epi Triumph w/ Biltloft CC). Pete gave me some teeny magnets to attach under the B and E strings to boost the signal, but they fell off quickly and were sadly not recovered.

The SD pickup is epoxied to the underside of the pick guard. I don't know that I can get it un-epoxied (in order to re-mount at a more favorable position) with out serious damage.

So- have you experience this or similar issues? I am looking for a nice thick high E.

Thanks!

Temporarily undo the pick guard screws, move the assembly it a little sideways to allow the PU to capture the high E string vibrations fully ....
Use some blue tack and tape to temp fix the PU in the new position

Re-test the balance across the strings
Has this cured the problem ?

If yes .....you are closer to fixing the issue
(move the pickup , new pickup etc)

If no .... You are closer to fixing the issue
use a thicker gauge E string maybe

Good luck , I hope you get it fixed up nicely

[chris32895]

I've had this issue many times. Sometimes I just could not get it dialed out and the issue was a bright instrument. One time, however, I did notice that my high e string had noticeably higher action (fretwork was needed and necessitated it) than the other strings and so, while the pickup and polepieces were technically correctly set, the e string was still noticeably further away and thus much quieter. So my takeaway is make sure the guitar is totally set up, everything works together.

[sgosnell]

A proper setup is always the first step in fixing anything.

[Bobby Timmons]

Determine if it's weak because the string is sounding weak acoustically possibly because of the setup, or because the string is far away from the pickup. If you don't have the ability to adjust the pup height, that could be the problem. You want to be able to fine tune both sides of the pup to get the treble and bass balance right..

PS: what's a Duncan JS?

[JazzDaddyD]

Thanks everyone for their comments; I haven't had time to make any adjustments but will this weekend.

Is there such a thing as One Proper Setup? Seems like different folks have different criteria.

[sgosnell]

PS: what's a Duncan JS?

Johnny Smith model pickup from Seymour Duncan.

Different people have different opinions on what is a perfect setup, but I think they all involve getting the nut slots even, at whichever height they prefer, getting the desired relief in the neck, and the proper spacing and depth of the bridge saddle slots.

[garybaldy]

Johnny Smith model pickup from Seymour Duncan.

Different people have different opinions on what is a perfect setup, but I think they all involve getting the nut slots even, at whichever height they prefer, getting the desired relief in the neck, and the proper spacing and depth of the bridge saddle slots.

It seems this SD JS is a custom design made for the luthier.

[Bobby Timmons]

Is there such a thing as One Proper Setup? Seems like different folks have different criteria.

No, effective setups vary. But the only possibilities are the weak e string is from it being shoddy acoustically, or too far away from the pickup. That's basically it barring some voodoo.