Sadowsky Ends Archtop Production

[Archie]

Sadowsky or Westville?

your thoughs…

I think they all come from the Terada factory.

I've always rated Terada as the best hollowbody mass production outfit, anywhere in the world, ever since I played the Epiphone Elitist range.

[callouscallus]

Once he gave away the recipe to Japan that insures these guitars will keep getting built. Albeit without the USA setup they once had and perhaps a new brand name

[fabiansey]

Would be a good thing to see the same guitar under another brand name for a more realistic price.

[Gitterbug]

Branding, apart from Yamaha, Tokai and Ibanez, hasn't been a Japanese forte. Just thinking of the variety brands ES-175 clones from Nippon were marketed under. A multiple of the factories that made them.

[Archie]

Once he gave away the recipe to Japan that insures these guitars will keep getting built. Albeit without the USA setup they once had and perhaps a new brand name

I do have a joke with myself that once you let a Japanese company build your guitar, that is a green light for them to do so in perpetuity.
They are very much like other oriental countries in that, they protect and defend their manufacturers and don't seem too bothered by other countries IP, as Gibson have found out.

Fender also found that out when they shipped out there for a couple of years.

I could be wrong but that is the way I've come to understand it.

[Archie]

Would be a good thing to see the same guitar under another brand name for a more realistic price.

It's called a D'Aquisto Jazz Line. Same body, different neck.

[sgcim]

If you don’t, can you point to article-thread-post that can explain this? Is there anything more than the fact that these aren’t selling?

I mentioned his name to a luthier well known for making laminates that sound as good as carved guitars but without the feedback problems. He didn't say a word, but the look on his face was filled with such pure, unmitigated disgust that I didn't say another word.

I will say that IMHO, the solid body Sadowsky guitar that Walter Becker played on the Steely Dan "Plush Jazz-Rock Party"TV special on PBS sounded so bad to me that it made me wonder why they featured it on almost every tune they played.

[John A.]

It's called a D'Aquisto Jazz Line. Same body, different neck.

Are those still made?

[Navdeep_Singh]

I mentioned his name to a luthier well known for making laminates that sound as good as carved guitars but without the feedback problems. He didn't say a word, but the look on his face was filled with such pure, unmitigated disgust that I didn't say another word.

I will say that IMHO, the solid body Sadowsky guitar that Walter Becker played on the Steely Dan "Plush Jazz-Rock Party"TV special on PBS sounded so bad to me that it made me wonder why they featured it on almost every tune they played.

Oh, Roger-Over and Out. (Both dudes). I think Emily Remler played one of those other guitars.

[sgcim]

Oh, Roger-Over and Out. (Both dudes). I think Emily Remler played one of those other guitars.

My lips are sealed.

[bluejaybill]

Oh, Roger-Over and Out. (Both dudes). I think Emily Remler played one of those other guitars.

Which can be had for less than the Sadowsky cost. An all hand-made laminate. And I got mine used for a lot less!

[Litterick]

For what it is worth, they speak highly of him on The Gear Page. Here are some examples:

Roger Sadowsky is a gentleman and a scholar...of music. As well as one of the finest luthiers on the planet!

Roger Sadowsky is a super nice guy and if you email him with the tone and feel you're looking for, he could build you a strat to your specs.

Roger Sadowsky is the last person on earth to employ marketing gimmicks or marketing ideas. If anything, IMHO, he shys away from them. When it comes to integrity, his is not to be questioned.

[ThatRhythmMan]

For what it is worth, they speak highly of him on The Gear Page. Here are some examples:

Roger Sadowsky is a gentleman and a scholar...of music. As well as one of the finest luthiers on the planet!

Roger Sadowsky is a super nice guy and if you email him with the tone and feel you're looking for, he could build you a strat to your specs.

Roger Sadowsky is the last person on earth to employ marketing gimmicks or marketing ideas. If anything, IMHO, he shys away from them. When it comes to integrity, his is not to be questioned.

Of course, Roger is an absolute legend in the bass world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Craiguitar]

I'm a lurker here and feel I'd better chime in, in defence of Sadowsky archtops! Actually I didn't realise they needed defending haha!

I got to learn off Jim Hall in the late 90's, and he was extremely picky about his instruments. This may be a little known fact?! At that time he was playing that beautiful D'Aquisto. Fast forward to 2003 and I saw him play at Iridium in NYC, and we met up between sets. He showed me his new Sadowsky, and his exact words were: "I really, really like it a lot." It was intended to be a touring version of his precious D'Aquisto, but he immediately started playing it exclusively. He let me play it for a minute and I was in love! My feeling is that it was not originally intended to be a production model, but I guess Roger had the idea of making more of them at some point.

As for the Japanese production, Roger tried different laminates from different places (Germany, USA and possibly others IIRC) but he liked the Japanese plates the best. They achieved the thinness that Jim wanted at a consistency Roger needed. There were many prototypes including some with 3 laminated sheets (instead of the 5 that they went with), and there was also a spruce-topped prototype. The final say went with Jim, he kept wanting the top thinner, so all of this R&D may explain the cost of the final production model maybe?

I finally got one in 2017 and it's the only guitar I've ever owned where I feel like the luthier knows more about what I want from a guitar than I do! I can get the classic bop tones, I can play swing guitar, I can even strum on it. Turn it down and the acoustic sound comes thru (I'd swear the pickup is slightly microphonic), turn it up and it just gets fatter and warmer. You can even play with some grit. I had it set up once so I could turn it right down or even off, for the Jim Hall style comping behind bass solos, or turn it up for the classic woody 175 sound, and turn it up some more and even get some Scofield type breakup! All just from the volume knob and my hands. What a machine!!!

I've got an Elitist Broadway, an Eastman 810CE, some nice vintage Ibanez's like a FG100, I've had 175's, an L4 etc etc. IMHO the Sadowsky kills all of the others to the point where I'm going to sell them off. Never thought I'd do that!

Oh and the Jazz Line looks very similar, and is a great guitar, but the laminate plates are not the same, nor is the pickup. I'd call it about half as good as the Sadowsky.

Is the Sadowsky better than a new Borys?... probably not, but it's way, way deep in the same ballpark! And when I got my Jim Hall it was much cheaper than a Borys.

I guess Roger wound up production coz he couldn't make them cheap enough anymore. Cost of living etc etc? He always wanted it to be the quality of a handmade instrument but for the working player.

[Woody Sound]

I was lucky to get my mint used 2005 nitro Jimmy Bruno for less than half the price of a new one today. It's still the most comfy and smooth neck. Much more effortless than the Eastmans I have owned (and I still have two of those.) It seems ironic that there was buzz about the new Bruno model, and now they pull the plug.

- Sadowsky Guitars

[Navdeep_Singh]

I'm a lurker here and feel I'd better chime in, in defence of Sadowsky archtops! Actually I didn't realise they needed defending haha!

I got to learn off Jim Hall in the late 90's, and he was extremely picky about his instruments. This may be a little known fact?! At that time he was playing that beautiful D'Aquisto. Fast forward to 2003 and I saw him play at Iridium in NYC, and we met up between sets. He showed me his new Sadowsky, and his exact words were: "I really, really like it a lot." It was intended to be a touring version of his precious D'Aquisto, but he immediately started playing it exclusively. He let me play it for a minute and I was in love! My feeling is that it was not originally intended to be a production model, but I guess Roger had the idea of making more of them at some point.

As for the Japanese production, Roger tried different laminates from different places (Germany, USA and possibly others IIRC) but he liked the Japanese plates the best. They achieved the thinness that Jim wanted at a consistency Roger needed. There were many prototypes including some with 3 laminated sheets (instead of the 5 that they went with), and there was also a spruce-topped prototype. The final say went with Jim, he kept wanting the top thinner, so all of this R&D may explain the cost of the final production model maybe?

I finally got one in 2017 and it's the only guitar I've ever owned where I feel like the luthier knows more about what I want from a guitar than I do! I can get the classic bop tones, I can play swing guitar, I can even strum on it. Turn it down and the acoustic sound comes thru (I'd swear the pickup is slightly microphonic), turn it up and it just gets fatter and warmer. You can even play with some grit. I had it set up once so I could turn it right down or even off, for the Jim Hall style comping behind bass solos, or turn it up for the classic woody 175 sound, and turn it up some more and even get some Scofield type breakup! All just from the volume knob and my hands. What a machine!!!

I've got an Elitist Broadway, an Eastman 810CE, some nice vintage Ibanez's like a FG100, I've had 175's, an L4 etc etc. IMHO the Sadowsky kills all of the others to the point where I'm going to sell them off. Never thought I'd do that!

Oh and the Jazz Line looks very similar, and is a great guitar, but the laminate plates are not the same, nor is the pickup. I'd call it about half as good as the Sadowsky.

Is the Sadowsky better than a new Borys?... probably not, but it's way, way deep in the same ballpark! And when I got my Jim Hall it was much cheaper than a Borys.

I guess Roger wound up production coz he couldn't make them cheap enough anymore. Cost of living etc etc? He always wanted it to be the quality of a handmade instrument but for the working player.

The Sadowsky Jim Hall is a fantastic guitar. Great fingerboard, setup, very good pickup. Perfect for jazz. I prefer the sound to the other laminate guitars I owned and sold -got rid of ALL of them. Bought 3 ES-175s. Gone. 2 70s Howard Roberts Oval Holes. Gone. 3 Ibanez GB10s. Gone.

I originally sold my Jim Hall too. But that one I regretted. It was much cheaper than. I wound up getting another one, a better one, a blond 2005 or 2006.

It’s literally the only 6 string archtop I own, as of today.

I don’t know what happens to prices but these jumped from 2400 to 3000 to 3200 to 4000. To over 6000. I wouldn’t spend $6k on it. Maybe that[s the reason they closed up shop.

I’ll happily keep my Jim Hall.

[Archie]

I'm a lurker here and feel I'd better chime in, in defence of Sadowsky archtops! Actually I didn't realise they needed defending haha!

I got to learn off Jim Hall in the late 90's, and he was extremely picky about his instruments. This may be a little known fact?! At that time he was playing that beautiful D'Aquisto. Fast forward to 2003 and I saw him play at Iridium in NYC, and we met up between sets. He showed me his new Sadowsky, and his exact words were: "I really, really like it a lot." It was intended to be a touring version of his precious D'Aquisto, but he immediately started playing it exclusively. He let me play it for a minute and I was in love! My feeling is that it was not originally intended to be a production model, but I guess Roger had the idea of making more of them at some point.

As for the Japanese production, Roger tried different laminates from different places (Germany, USA and possibly others IIRC) but he liked the Japanese plates the best. They achieved the thinness that Jim wanted at a consistency Roger needed. There were many prototypes including some with 3 laminated sheets (instead of the 5 that they went with), and there was also a spruce-topped prototype. The final say went with Jim, he kept wanting the top thinner, so all of this R&D may explain the cost of the final production model maybe?

I finally got one in 2017 and it's the only guitar I've ever owned where I feel like the luthier knows more about what I want from a guitar than I do! I can get the classic bop tones, I can play swing guitar, I can even strum on it. Turn it down and the acoustic sound comes thru (I'd swear the pickup is slightly microphonic), turn it up and it just gets fatter and warmer. You can even play with some grit. I had it set up once so I could turn it right down or even off, for the Jim Hall style comping behind bass solos, or turn it up for the classic woody 175 sound, and turn it up some more and even get some Scofield type breakup! All just from the volume knob and my hands. What a machine!!!

I've got an Elitist Broadway, an Eastman 810CE, some nice vintage Ibanez's like a FG100, I've had 175's, an L4 etc etc. IMHO the Sadowsky kills all of the others to the point where I'm going to sell them off. Never thought I'd do that!

Oh and the Jazz Line looks very similar, and is a great guitar, but the laminate plates are not the same, nor is the pickup. I'd call it about half as good as the Sadowsky.

Is the Sadowsky better than a new Borys?... probably not, but it's way, way deep in the same ballpark! And when I got my Jim Hall it was much cheaper than a Borys.

I guess Roger wound up production coz he couldn't make them cheap enough anymore. Cost of living etc etc? He always wanted it to be the quality of a handmade instrument but for the working player.

Happy to be corrected on the body of the Jazzline and Sadowsky. It’s my experience that if the manufacturer is already set up to make a particular body, they will just port it over to another almost identical one. Ibanez, Greco and other Japanese brands have been sharing the same formers and plates on may 16” laminate models over the years.
The same plate used on the JP20 is the same on the FG100, is the same on the later Greco FA series.

It’s a shame he had to stop having them made. I played one once and thought it to be very well made. I’d love to have one but the price was a barrier.
That’s likely not Rogers fault and I really admire his efforts. I don’t know how thick Bory’s plates are but Sadowsky opened my eyes as to the evolution of them regarding thickness.

I just double checked the Jazzline and it has 5 veneers in the lamination. The top is still about 5mm thick though which is more in line with a standard plate thickness.
It would be interesting to get a measurement off of yours, if you can take one?
The 1st and 5th veneers are decorative so the main bulk of the plate is 3 ply. Looks like basswood on top, perhaps a thin layer of maple in the middle. Not sure what’s on the bottom but appears to be end grain. Very similar to a Gibson style lamination.

Here’s a pic.

[Craiguitar]

No worries, I just measured the top of my Sadowsky Jim Hall it and it's about 3mm. I tried to get a photo with the ruler but I couldn't hold the ruler in place and the camera steady at the same time haha! But here's a photo just of the top...



But yeah those Jazz Line guitars are great... I've had students that play them, and I could happily play one for the rest of my life and it's not gonna be holding me back in any way! But the Sadowsky is alive and resonant... it's really on a whole different level.

[Arnesto]

I have a daquisto jazz line (terada) and I love it

[Archie]

No worries, I just measured the top of my Sadowsky Jim Hall it and it's about 3mm. I tried to get a photo with the ruler but I couldn't hold the ruler in place and the camera steady at the same time haha! But here's a photo just of the top...



But yeah those Jazz Line guitars are great... I've had students that play them, and I could happily play one for the rest of my life and it's not gonna be holding me back in any way! But the Sadowsky is alive and resonant... it's really on a whole different level.

Not gonna lie, the lamination layers look exactly the same from what I can tell.
Essentially 3 ply with 2x decorative veneers.
The bottom layer in the main ply looks like Sapele on both models.
So at a guess, top to bottom:

Maple
Basswod
Maple
Sapele
Maple

Does your body have kerfing internally (where else of course)?

[Woody Sound]

No worries, I just measured the top of my Sadowsky Jim Hall it and it's about 3mm. I tried to get a photo with the ruler but I couldn't hold the ruler in place and the camera steady at the same time haha! But here's a photo just of the top...

My Jimmy Bruno appears to be around 3.5. But it's a sienna burst, so I can't really see the grain lines to guess at wood types.

[Woody Sound]

Stock update and big archtop news from Roger Sadowsky:


"After 20 wonderful years, I have decided to end my archtop guitar production.

It has been a great ride and I have loved all of the players I have had the opportunity to work with over the years. I appreciate all of you who have appreciated and supported my work.

The only remaining instruments available are listed on the Sadowsky website. We have 4 more SS-15 guitars that will be listed as soon as they are finished.

There is no change to our regular guitar and bass production."


See the remaining in stock archtops here: Available Archtop Guitars - Sadowsky Guitars

I just visited the Sadowsky site and couldn't find any mention of this. Where did you read it?

[customxke]

I just visited the Sadowsky site and couldn't find any mention of this. Where did you read it?

Facebook

[Woody Sound]

I might add, Benedettos laminates go for much more. I don't hear any whining about that.

[deacon Mark]

I might add, Benedettos laminates go for much more. I don't hear any whining about that.

I would not buy one of them either except a fire sale, but at least his company makes them here not overseas.