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I’m new to modelers and multi effects units: are there on the web some good guides about how to choose the one which fits your needs?
and some tips about how to set up tones…
I have a boss me 80 which seems to me just a toy and not a pro tool. But maybe I’m not good enough to set it up.
I need some smooth overdrive tone and some fat clean (delay, compressor, reverb) that I hear around on the web but I’m not able to replicate.
I’ve always been a guitar-cable-amp guy but lately my taste has changed.
thanks for any advice.
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05-09-2024 09:27 AM
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I don't believe there is a single source for advice on setting up a signal chain. There are lots of videos on U tube. Many are useless or worse (with bad advice). Some are informative.
It requires time, learning, and some investment to get a high quality sound.
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There's nothing for it but to put in the time.
I suggest you set a price target range and then investigate what's available in that price range more closely. Say your price range was US$500-$700, you'd be able to include Line 6 HX Effects, HX Stomp, Boss GX-100, and probably several others. Start watching YouTube videos about those boxes.
There's not much conceptual difference between a bunch of pedals and a multi-effects box. Start simple, with maybe a reverb, and get used to that; then add some modulation, and play with that awhile, and so forth.
One thing to be aware of is that most of the market for multi-effects boxes is for non-jazz players. Amp simulation/emulation is particularly big right now, and many of the manufacturers emphasize that in their promotional materials. But as a jazz player, amp simulation is not going to be of much use to you, especially distorted amp simulation. So be on the lookout for YouTube presentation that feature something other than a distortophile wanking out on every heavy-metal sound available.
Unfortunately, hyperbole and perfectionism are all over product reviews for multi-effects boxes. Be careful about that.
And BTW it would probably help you to have some sounds in mind that you're trying to produce. Is there a player whose sound you're trying to emulate? Find out what they use (effects, I mean, not brands of multi-effects box so much.) Otherwise you might just get lost in the non-useful details and just confuse yourself.
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I used the ME80 for years. I've seen working pros use the ME series. I liked the reverb well enough, although I still added some at the amp. I never quite figured out the delay. I never could improve my sound with the compressor. And, I never got an overdrive sound I really liked and I tried with the OD/DS module and with the preamp.
Originally Posted by gianluca
I did use the modulation effects, a bit of the delay, the volume pedal and some EQ.
I tried the ME90. It has a lot of positive reviews of the preamps and some built in modeling. I didn't like any of the preamps (unlike many players) and I found the modeling to be confusing to use. Others have advised that higher end products are easier to use, but I don't have any experience with that level of modeling.
One thing that might work for you is that it has an FX loop, meaning you could add an overdrive to the system and cover what the ME90 might be weakest at.
I traded in my ME80 for the ME90 and then returned the ME90. I still had the ME70 and that's what I'm using now. Perhaps surprisingly, the ME70 has two advantages over the newer models. It has 4 band EQ, not just 3 band. And, it's narrower. It fits in an ordinary rolling briefcase, which the others do not. To my ear and for what I do, it sounds about as good as the ME80.
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I don't know how much I have spent on effects over the last decade. And pedal boards, power supplies, and other bits. Lots of currency has flowed in that direction. Some I use, some I don't. It's actually been a good journey. I have learned a lot and I'm very happy with my tone and the flexibility I've achieved.
That being said.. if I were going to start today, I would buy a Fractal FM3 even if it is a bit pricey. High quality input and output circuits, well thought out, more than you'll ever need as you explore the possibilities.
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Good point! Originally Posted by dconeill
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I might too, but remember that you (and I) have had extensive experience with all of the real items: amps, OD's, delays, modulation etc. That previous knowledge takes you pretty far with one of these types of units. For others, the Fractal has a very steep learning curve, and sucks up time that might be better spent playing the instrument, instead of twirling buttons. Ask me how I know! Originally Posted by Spook410
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I've been in the Multi-FX game for a good 30 years now , starting out with a 4-preset BOSS pedal, moving on through the follow-up BOSS pedals and ended up with a HELIX Stomp modeler which has been my only unit for the past 3 or 4 years and I don't plan on getting anything new. Now the learning curve is not THAT steep but you have to put in some time and LEARN the architecture of the unit, hook it up to your computer and check out the many VERY informative and time-saving tutorials on the web. No shortcuts - but it will def. be worth your while : the quality of the converters, the layout, the actual models of the amps, speakers, fx etc., the small footprint, the constant updates and all make this an incredible pedal and it's not really that expensive either.
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thanks to everyone for the advices. Originally Posted by gitman
I think my unit (boss me80) is pretty an entry level multi effect.
But I like very much the wide availability of knobs and buttons which allows me adjustements on the fly on stage (the tone you could preset at home might be different in stage).
Could anyone address me to a pro multi effect unit (fractal, helix, kemper, etc) which has the same construction?
something that allows both presets and manual adjustement on stage.
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Gianluca, if I understand your post correctly, you don't need amp modelling, just fx, right?
If that's the case, brands seem to have stopped investing in that type of product (of course you can always use a modeller without the modelling part), so there's not that many options.
The best current unit for that is the Line6 HXFX, which has all the fx from the Helix world minus the modelling. It's fairly small and light and has everything to replace a pedalboard: tuner with center frequency adjustment (very useful for jazzers and rarer than you would think) and lots of overdrives, modulations and time-based fx. There's always a discussion about the quality of the fx and some brands are certainly better on that regard (like Fractal) but you pay a lot more. I find the overdrives to be good but not gread and I like the time-based effects, especially the new Dynamic Reverbs, like the plate and the hall (NOT the Spring). Apparently they were designed by a guy that used to work from Lexicon! I also really enjoy the eqs and the LA-2A compressor is stellar.
Another nice thing is they included an IR loader with mix control - so you can use a preamp pedal before it and then use the IRs for cab simulation. Or use an acoustic and use an IR/mix control to help the sound.
The two main flaws, in my view, are no adjustable input impedance (so it's hard to use the fuzzes if you don't use a buffer before) and no balanced outs, not even TRS. So, if you want to go trough a PA, you might need a DI after the HXFX. If you're going to the amp's input, you're fine.
Hope this helps. And IMO the HXFX is a big step up from the ME80 - others might disagree.
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This is my jazz rig
And my rock/pop and anything else rig. I still use a 1996 boss ME8 and don't consider it to be a toy. No amp modelling required.
And normally a Gibby LP or SG!
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Choice of fx is very subjective and personal. My dream rig might be your nightmare. Therefore, do a hands-on test drive of as many candidates as possible at music stores and jam sessions. Go to live shows to hear what other players use. If you can, ask them in person what they like and don't like about their rig.
You're going to spend a lot of time on this, so make it enjoyable - not doing your homework and trying to shortcut this by just taking someone else's advice is guaranteed to make this project cost more money and take more time for a less-satisfying result.
Whatever you buy, plan on 6 months of "new gear hell" while you learn to use it and to dial in its sound to your liking. Tip: when it comes to fx, less is more. Manufacturer's presets tend to be over-effected to show off the features of the unit at bedroom/demo room levels; at gigging volumes, less fx sounds better. You want your instrumental tone to take its proper place in the band mix, not to be buried in a wash of signal-processing.
Shop used gear. Your money goes twice as far. If you are not confident in your ability to thoroughly inspect said gear for deal-breaking flaws, recruit a more-experienced player to help you make a final purchase decision. For example, suppose you shop all the fx units new and used at all the local stores and then you find what you think you want in a Craigslist ad. Bring your friend with to get a second opinion and a thorough test drive before you part with your cash. This may not be as big a deal if you are buying from a reputable store that stands behind the sale. Buying used can be really cost-effective, but the phrase "caveat emptor" could not apply more.
Lastly, be prepared for GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) that may last a lifetime. What you love this year may not seem so great later on. So don't rush into it. Take your time and do your homework.
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It's been a couple of decades since I used anything, but if those needs returned it would be a Carl Martin Quattro. Very high quality, captive line cord to internal transformer (24V), small footprint, easy to use - just foot buttons and knobs. All analog except for one chip in the echo. About 16" wide, 4 lbs.
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The HX Stomp gets my vote too. I only use mine for amp/cab sim since my gig rig is a Bose S1 and I don't care for effects. It has the pro quality effects in all the categories you listed and isn't super daunting to learn (no really), especially if you put your presets together using the HX Edit app on your computer. Originally Posted by gitman
And while it's old hardware it still gets several firmware updates each year that always add new amps, cabs, and effects. If you can find a used HX Stomp you can save money and still benefit from the updates.
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There is a used Quattro at MF for less than 1/2 price... here
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+1 for the Helix Stomp.
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So you set up it at home and play gig with that setup? Originally Posted by Simon1234
do you use only presets or you do your own setups?
never need to adjust something on stage?
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Yep, I set it up at home before the gig, depending on the set list, but once you get the hang of creating chains, you can do it on the fly. Originally Posted by gianluca
I tend to create one 'block-set' with my favourite types of blocks (a boost > an overdrive > an amp > a delay > a reverb > a wah) and then tweak the parameters to taste. I don't tend to use the cab blocks available.
I can save three flavours of that chain (as "snapshots") and when in Snapshot mode can switch between them easily using the three big pedal buttons. For example button one is clean (boost, but no overdrive or wah) button 2 is dirty (boost + overdrive but no wah) and button 3 is a wah (no boost, no overdrive, but wah on).
Alternatively, I can make three different chains, saving them under different names, and scroll between them between songs (which is actually simpler).
I plug it straight into an Fender FR10 FRFR speaker, or my Mambo 10, or Fender Tonemaster Twin, and will quite often change the settings on the gig depending on the room and how it sounds.
I like the simplicity of archtop straight to amp with as few jack leads as possible. Im not into the faff and expense of a single pedals on a board so the Stomp gives me a simple guitar > single pedal > amp set up, with just two jack cables.
I'm also usually v limited for space (big band) so the small form of the Stomp works for me.
I have the Stomp at knee height not on the floor, so I can tweak on the fly and actually read the little screen. I bought a generic volume pedal from Amazon that plugs into the Stomp and works for wah-ing (though less well for volume).
I create my own chains, I dont download anything.
I tend to edit using the Stomp itself, rather than plugging it into my laptop.
Through headphones, the Stomp sounds glorious; for live gigs I'm still learning how to make it all sound as good as possible (but that's a challenge beyond the Stomp).
Although I play mainly straight ahead jazz mostly, the Stomp is fab when i want to get my Stevie Ray Vaughan on and noodle with my cheapo Tele Deluxe copy. Boost, overdrive and delay and I'll see you in two hours.
You can plug your phone or iPad or laptop in to play a track and noodle over the top. Great fun, although distracting from learning arpeggios or sight-reading practice.
There are multiple types of each effect so I can try say a Klon clone vs a Tube Screamer, or a Roland JC120 vs a small tweed amp at the twist of a knob, rather than having to fork out £££ to get the experience.
Basically £500 for all the pedals and tones I could want for a gig, or for fun, and I can then concentrate on actually learning to play the guitar.
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thank you very much; Originally Posted by Simon1234
I see the Stomp is the smaller pro unit in the helix family.
do you know the advantages of larger (and more expensive) unit of same family?
I don’t have space problems so I could use an unit with more buttons if it is worth…
(i have a tone master twin as well
)
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I made some attempts to ride on Line 6, Roland, Lexicon, Digitech and Fractal over the years. They all sounded creepy to me. Kemper is my main gear for a year now and it's almost perfect in quick adjustment on stage. The sound is always good and you can profile not only clean or distorted amps but also mic preamps for acoustic guitars or jazz box direct line sound. You have access to volume, tone and each effect on/off or mix with 1 button or rotary controller. Originally Posted by gianluca
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I know this was not directed at me, but the two main advantages of the bigger units are 1) easier to edit, with more knobs and a bigger screen 2) more processing power, so you can use more blocks and heavier effects. The biggers Helix has "scribble scripts", which the LT doesn't. Oh, and they have XLR outs, although the HX Stomp has balanced jacks outputs, so you can use TRS to XLR cable. Originally Posted by gianluca
thank you very much;
I see the Stomp is the smaller pro unit in the helix family.
do you know the advantages of larger (and more expensive) unit of same family?
I don’t have space problems so I could use an unit with more buttons if it is worth…
(i have a tone master twin as well)
At the price point of the bigger Helix you also have Fractal, Kemper, Fender, Neural DSP, etc... Personally I don't think the Helix is worth it at that price point, the HX Stomp is the sweet spot if you can edit on such a small unit.
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Here is a song I recorded using the cheapest multi effect you coild get at the time, the zoom g1on, which was $49 new. To make it more challenging I used a $67 goodwill acoustic and one of those $8 12 hole pickups. I then went from the g1on into a little sony udx recorder about the size of a bic lighter, and did it all on battery power. It sounds decent. I just picked that rythm track, used a bass model and created a loop, then played the lead on top of that and recorded using the sony. At that time I had to convince people it was all done without an amp or speaker. I you work at it, you can get a decent sound out of all of those units I think. Oh, and I kind of ran out gas about 2/3 of the way through.
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