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when your buying guitars is it to keep and use?
a hedge against inflation because it was to good a deal to pass up?
or just to immediately flip in hopes of not loosing money,maybe make a little and aford a burger?
i love guitars and have a very bad habit of loveing them far to much like strays they find there way here far more then they should and i have found it very hard to let them go once i have them?
i ran a music store and that was differant i seem that as a job and very seldom kept anything very seldom should have looking in the rear view but?
i have been think about maybe buying some guitars to flip but i hae no clue about even how i would sel them if i did. ebea is horible i use to use ebay and liked them but wow they have changed a lot.
i have never sold anything on reverb?
and not shure the comunety i am in would be a good market to sell anyway.
plus it seems people can by guitars from multiple place for minimal payment plan spreading the hit out over many many months, cant compleat with that.
any just wunder what others think and or are doing?
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05-08-2024 11:48 PM
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I think there are better returns on your investment than guitars, at least for the average aficionado, but will be interesting to hear what others have to say.
As with any collectible item, the top buyers have a rarified perspective on what a guitar is worth and whether it's a good investment.
I guess the guy who bought Mark Knopfler's 1983 Les Paul used to record Money For Nothing and Brothers In Arms, and which he played on stage at Live Aid in 1985, for £592,000 thought he was getting a good deal.
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It’s fine to have some collectibles as part of your overall portfolio but you’re crazy to speculate on them thinking they will appreciate at a competitive rate. Even though guitars appreciate, stocks have much better expected returns on average. Every dollar you have locked up in a guitar is a dollar you didn’t invest for better return in a risk-balanced stock portfolio.
Last edited by omphalopsychos; 05-09-2024 at 03:23 PM.
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I have never bought a guitar as an investment and probably never will. I bought it because I wanted to play it and enjoyed how it sounded and felt felt. I don't even give a thought to what I might be able to resell the guitar for; that's probably going to be the problem of my executor rather than myself, anyway. Of all the guitars I've bought in the last 45 years, I've gotten rid of three of them.
I do keep thinking that I should really clear out most of my stuff; I'm turning 65, gigging opportunities are few, and for my development as musician I'd probably be better off focusing on the music and only having a couple of guitars rather than having all these distractions.
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Remember, no guitar is worth more than anyone is willing to pay for it, no matter the so called “market.”
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well i have persnaly had horific luck in the stock market dean witter and morgan stanly have manage my money as i know little about stocks and they mangae to tale a 1/4 mill in just one of my acount took about ten grand between 9 / 11 and 2008. i do have a guy now who has manage to get my accounts back on track but my confidance in the stock market is not so great.
the few account we have that have done okay have just that done okay they kept about with inflation and thats about it.
siver in my safe have done that with zero risk?
so to the guitars i was thinking i might buy and flip a few but as mentiomed not really sure if its worth it or if i will do it just thinking about it.
aside from flipping some guitars i really not sure i would buy much for investment ather thatn what i do now, if i see a bargen on something i think will go up i will buy it.
i had a 59 marry kay strat and one of the three ameagos from the big guitar show i beeave it was larry drove here and drop ten grand in cash for that guitar that was i beleave 2000 that is one guitar i wis i had held onto for an invetstment guitar. oh well at that time i think it was a fair price.
i have had a fiar number of very cool guitars that would have been great for investments guitars if i only had 20 20 hindsight. LOL we could proubly all say that.
i see guitars jere forsale people want to sell for some other item or need money and one can get a bargin but not sure if you can make any money andi do not need anymove guitars.
one what i feel is a bargin at this time is a coulple like new very clean fender aerodynes one strat one telle i can get them for 1200.00 i have not bought and sold in year but that seems like something a guy could make a dollar on?
but i figure to do so i would have to sell on ebay for reverb and i do know for sure that buy the time ebay takes their cut i woulc be lucky to make anything and if i sell locally no clue how long i would set on them?
i did like the way they play they are nice guitars but thats a topic for another thread, i am really thinking about the strat for me? LOL i do not need it and must resist the urge : )
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I am always looking for a bargain, possibly to make over and flip, but it's barely worth the time and effort to do it. I would do it for fun more than money, e.g., the Gretsch Anni that needs a neck reset.
I doubt that most of us have the expertise and eye to value really high end guitars, especially to make a profit. High-end collecting is a very rarified world.
(Brief story--about 15 years ago I got into buying/fixing up/selling vintage handplanes, mainly Stanleys. I ended up with about 200 of them. I kept a spreadsheet, and at the end of a couple of years I found I had made 15% profit. I decided it was too time-consuming to keep doing it on a regular basis. But when you're in the middle of the auction stuff, there is definitely an adrenaline rush.)
Speaking of which--Sylvester Stallone will be auctioning off some of his watch collection. One of them is expected to fetch several million $$. Watches are probably a better investment than guitars...
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Spell check investment please.....
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The only piece of gear I ever sold for a profit was a Gibson ES-175. In all my trading days, I considered the price differential between buying and selling gear as the value of having firsthand knowledge and experience with that guitar, amp, pedal, etc. It was fun.
Going into it to turn a profit would taint the joy of the process for me.
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probly not going to happen.
Originally Posted by wintermoon
its good enough or its not i am not writing a book or a document.
so take it or leave i dont care but i do not need spelling police.
please!
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chat gpt is free: Originally Posted by wintermoon
When you're buying guitars, is it to keep and use, as a hedge against inflation because it was too good a deal to pass up, or just to immediately flip in hopes of not losing money and maybe make a little to afford a burger?
I love guitars and have a very bad habit of loving them far too much. Like strays, they find their way here far more than they should, and I have found it very hard to let them go once I have them. Running a music store was different; I saw that as a job and very seldom kept anything. I should have reconsidered that looking in the rearview mirror, but?
I have been thinking about maybe buying some guitars to flip, but I have no clue about how I would sell them if I did. eBay is horrible. I used to use eBay and liked it, but wow, they have changed a lot. I have never sold anything on Reverb, and I'm not sure the community I am in would be a good market to sell anyway. Plus, it seems people can buy guitars from multiple places with minimal payment plans, spreading the hit out over many months. Can't compete with that. Just wondering what others think and/or are doing?
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Don't most guitars depreciate rather than appreciate? Wouldn't only rare collectibles appreciate? Even nice vintage instruments are still usually less than the comparable model new.
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suit yourself, just trying to help. Originally Posted by pan60
but if you're going to get into the guitar flipping biz I'm not sure how many people are going to take you seriously if you come off looking like a 2nd grader.
but good luck anyway....
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You'd do a lot better in the S&P 500, and with a lot less hassle.
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To expect people to make a 20X return on stock investments is just unrealistic. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
If only we were all able to pick the winning stocks.
Guitars can be a somewhat sensible hedge against inflation but as a return on investment, you'd have to be as good at picking stocks, as you were the next guitar that was about to double in price.
Hedging against inflation isn't making money but it's better than it sitting in an account with lower than inflation interest. Another downside is, guitars can be unstable. Put it away in a case, open it up 12 years later and the pickguards gassed, or the binding is rotting, or the finish has been stained by the case lining.
Housing is where it's at and for stable investments, probably something that tracks the DOW or other major exchanges, will over time, yield the safest long term result.
Someone did do a video recently though were he purchased random lego kits, like a Batman edition etc.. Over some time (i forget), those lego kits out performed all the major managed hedge funds.
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I have a 401k at work, and I buy and hold an Exchange traded fund of the NASDAQ 100 and reinvest the dividends as low risk investments; and I day trade currencies - Forex as an aggressive investment strategy.
Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 05-16-2024 at 02:57 PM.
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Overall guitars are not a good investment. Downsides:
First and foremost.. there is no compounding when it comes to guitars as an investment compared to financial investments. There is no revenue stream like you would find in real estate. There is no return on investment based on growth you would get from direct investment in a business. If you don't know what all that means, then additional prep is required to have any discussion on investments. In addition..
- Cash transactions have risks
- Not a liquid investment
- Specific and significant expertise required (many think they are but we're talking actual experience, not Google)
- Connections in a quite closed of industry of specialty traders are hard to make
- Reliance on social and economic trends well beyond many other investments
- Guitars have to be maintained. Wood is not all that consistent over time and varying conditions.
- Guitars can be stolen and/or destroyed in flood and fire
- Guitars require insurance
- Guitars are not portable
- A huge one people always leave out.. there is often a large selling cost. Not to mention the time, aggravation, and the chance of being cheated.Last edited by Spook410; 05-10-2024 at 04:36 PM.
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In terms of "toys", the right models from the right makers (Fender, Gibson ans Martin) are about the best investment that I have found. But there are, as others have already pointed out, better things to invest in (Stocks, bonds, real estate etc.) if returns are of prime importance.
Buy a guitar to inspire your playing first and foremost, and always buy a guitar that you are OK owning for the rest of your days, as you might have to!
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Yeah that's true, but my point is still valid. Guitars will underperform the S&P500 or any blue chip index fund on average, so all the money you allocate to guitars would grow at a faster rate elsewhere. Originally Posted by Archie
I disagree with this. If you buy a guitar from a reputable manufacturer, especially if it's of a desirable vintage, it will not lose its value. I'm always blown away by some members on this forum who say that they don't have the funds for a 50s Gibson but then they spend thousands on cheap Ibanezs and Eastmans, not to mention quirky new gear like amps etc. They might think they're being frugal by not spending $5k+ on a guitar, but the effort is self defeating since all those gizmos and cheaply produced instruments lose their value. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Like the man said: "Buy land-they're not making it anymore! "
Doug
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But in general they won't really appreciate, thereby being a legitimate viable financial investment that actually makes you money beyond inflation.. unless they're a serious collector's item. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Re: suggestion that pan60 use spellcheck:
You do, actually. Spelling words correctly helps your readers to understand the point you're trying to make, and it shows respect for the readers. If you don't care enough about what you're saying to use the proper words and to at least try to spell them correctly, that communicates that you don't care whether you're understood or not. If that's how you want to roll, go ahead. But don't expect to be taken seriously. Originally Posted by pan60
With respect to guitars as investments, generally they're not, they're cost centers. For the most part, guitars are tools and should be treated, financially, as such. While it's true that a few guitars appreciate in real value over time, most do not. I suppose you could view the price difference between what you paid for a guitar and what you sold it for, taking inflation into account, as a usage fee. Determining which guitars will appreciate in real value over time requires an ability to predict the future that few of us have.
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Whilst all true, I think we know where the majority of sharks are swimming. Originally Posted by Spook410
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A few years ago I added an inflation calculator to the spreadsheet that lists all my guitars.
Most of the guitars are not appreciating. However, some do hold their value and some have depriciated.
For example here. The hand made Yamaha classical GC-50 would probably only sell for $2000, maybe less. (Purchase price today's dollars $6008.97) while the Korina flying V re-issue might sell for $8000 (purchase price in today's dollars $4092.04), and the Ibanez ES-175 might sell for $1200 (purchase price today's dollars $763.04).
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
On average, I agree with you. Sometimes you get lucky and find an arbitrage opportunity, but typically your gains net to zero in real dollars. Then again, that's the same for anyone who keeps cash in a savings account. Just as with a savings account, it makes sense to have some liquid asset. However, I ultimately don't see a good reason to have more than a small percentage of your net worth in savings (or guitars).
Some people buy and sell guitars at a much larger scale than I do and they are able to make a real, i.e. inflation-adjusted, ROI. But that kind of approach requires more of a time commitment, and willingness to buy guitars you don't want, just to sell them. It comes with much more overhead, including more tax prep work since typically these operations succeed from higher scale and velocity. I don't do this. I don't think I've ever bought a guitar just to flip it, even though I've bought some guitars at a good price relative to what I sold them for.
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