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hi people
my strings are shifted too far to the treble side - its a floating bridge traditional jazz guitar. what can be done? it seems like quite a serious issue to me - unless the position of the tailpiece is adjusted I can't see how to fix it properly, but changing the position of the tailpiece does not seem an option.... fixing the bridge would mean the whole set up was under tension.... etc.
any ideas?
cheers
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05-06-2024 02:23 PM
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Hi Groyniad, in order to see the extent of the misalignement a foto would help. Slight adjustments of a few millimeters can be done usually by moving bridge & base sideways. It's best to loosen the strings before doing so in order to be able to move it without having to apply much force. Maybe also check & adjust intonation after tuning up again.
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Pictures are worth all the words in word. Truthy if this gets complicated simply take to someone who repairs guitars it is not complicated. The tailpiece could not be put on centered of the bridge is simply in the wrong place. It can be fixed and should in a heartbeat. Repositioning the tailpiece a bit more but not complicated.
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Loosen the strings, slide the bridge over, tighten the strings, check intonation and alignment, repeat until satisfied.
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you can see the strings are being pulled to the bass side by the bridge - but still not far enough for them to sit right
thanks!
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if only it was so simple! - if I do this the bridge just slides back to where it wants to be because of the pull of the strings
Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I've put three little rubber pads to the right side of the bridge to try to stop it slipping back - they don't work - sad face.
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Maybe it’s just the camera angle, but holding my ipad flat and looking along the photo, the tailpiece possibly looks a bit misaligned? (Too much towards the right/treble side).
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Tailpiece alignment definitely looks odd where it joins the base of the guitar:
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can you take a couple of fotos from the rim side to show how the tailpiece is attached? Originally Posted by Groyniad
you can see the strings are being pulled to the bass side by the bridge - but still not far enough for them to sit right
thanks!
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I would put a new tailpiece on it because I don't like those and then make sure it was centered. IF you use that tailpiece it is not centered on the guitar. Needs to be set on the guitar correct. It is not hard you remove the tailpiece. Get a long straightedge ruler, preferably a machinist 2 foot ruler. Put it right in the middle of the fingerboard all the way up to the where the nut is. Making sure it bisects the fingerboard you then mark the middle of the guitar at the lower bout where the tailpiece will sit. Should be center seam on top of guitar.
Double check this is the center of the guitar and also make a small mark at the center where the bridge will sit. You can then measure at where the bridge will sit to see if it is center to the guitar, at the approx point of the F hole indentions. It should be equal on all side. It is possible the neck is not perfectly sitting at a 90 degree angle to the body lengthwise. If that is the case, then you have to fudge and come up with a compromise.
It really is all about geometry and making the tailpiece sit in the center of the fingerboard. It should naturally then be the center of the guitar body but not everything is perfect. That probably made no sense but I gave it shot. Then fill the holes and attach tailpiece marking the new holes for the screws. Make sure to use the proper drill size for the pilot holes.
It is possible the jack runs out the end of the tailpiece and that will require a whole more work but same concept. In that case if the tailpiece was off I would plug the old jack hole and drill a new one. That is the only real fix that will eliminate problems. Hopefully the jack is on the side of the rims like Gibson.
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If it hasn't been like this always something in the tailpiece may have loosened/broken.
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Moving the tailpiece over is dead simple, what's the big deal? Originally Posted by Groyniad
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I used this method to re align a zig zag tailpiece on a Japanese 175 copy. But because of the curvature of the butt end of the guitar, the new position threw the angle of the tailpiece such that the string alignment was still out by more or less the same amount. At the time I couldn't be a$$ed to do it again!! Also wondering if the tailpiece is square to the bend. At some point I'll get round to having another go and will change pickups at the same time. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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maybe this helps?
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
well that's a good thing - its an easy repair for any decent guitar tech?
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The fixation bracket appears to be installed correctly though my eyes try to convince me there's something askew or asymmetric about it. They do the same about the curvature of the top of your guitar, which is hopefully just an optical illusion. Originally Posted by Groyniad
However, the tailpiece itself appears to be warped.
Looking again at the 1st photo you posted I think you should take the strings, saddle and and tailpiece off and check if the neck and fingerboard align properly with the centre seam of the guitar.
My resonator came with the tailpiece installed off-centre. In fact, judging from the additional screwholes I found when I took it off, they first installed it slightly to the treble side, and then for some reason decided to shift it even more.
It ended up doing the same thing that happens on your guitar; the entire saddle + cone assembly would shift downward while playing, putting my 1st string really at the edge. By that time Fender had already voided my warranty because I'd replaced the nut and saddle for the nylon string conversion (and for that, they won't see any more of my money).
I didn't dare to make new screw holes so close to existing ones so instead I bent the legs of the tailpiece so the string holder now aligns propery with the fingerboard.
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If the tailpiece base is installed correctly but you think the tailpiece itself is asymmetrical or warped, contact and eastman dealer and see if they can order you a new tailpiece.
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Groyniad, maybe the sideways angle of the neck does not allow a straight centered line from the middle of the nut through the center of the tailpiece to the endpin. A frontal pic of the whole guitar including the neck up to the headstock might confirm this. Moving the tailpiece sideways would help, but there's the endpin in the way which might have to be moved too in order to get enough clearance.
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thanks a lot everyone - really helping me here - this is a guitar worth sorting out - it has put all my American made archtops on the substitutes bench...
another pic jazz note - thanks again: hopefully its clear that the bass string is being pushed towards the bass side by the bridge - but not far enough to get the strings to sit just where they need to.
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it has been like this always - though the bridge used to 'stick' in roughly the right place better than it does now (now it just slips back a bit to the bass side when I try to push it over towards the treble side) Originally Posted by teeps
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just found this from an earlier forum post - thought id repost it here in case it helps someone else too. it seems the issue is not unheard of with Eastman guitars. (no-one is a bigger Eastman fan than me).
I had the same problem with my Eastman. The cause is in the mounting of the tailpiece. It must be "aimed" exactly down the center of the neck or one of the Es will be too close to the edge.
I corrected the condition by loosening the tailpiece screws and inserting a small felt pad - enough to change the tailpiece's aim a tiny bit toward the bass side.
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Ref my post #14. Originally Posted by Groyniad
I shall be slacking 2 screws on my tailpiece and see if the strings pull the tailpiece into line. I'll probably loosen the strings a bit first.
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I should think this to be a very effective solution! Originally Posted by Groyniad
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Or you leave this imperfection as a sign of being a hand-built instrument but instead improve the design. It never made sense to me that they'd use through-the-top PU and controls but not a ditto saddle
If you look at the picture taken from the rear, the guitar rims have a positive angle from horizontal in the frame while the top of the tailpiece appears to slant the opposite way. I have no idea how it is fixed to the fixation bracket but if the impression is not just a geometric illusion, one explanation for that could be that the bracket has a part that is bent over the top, with a fold that isn't properly perpendicular to the centreline of the bracket's vertical part. I *think* that would cause the tailpiece to be angled like it is on your instrument.
How stiff if that tailpiece-to-bracket fixation anyway? If stiff and solid enough you could take the assembly off, put the screwed-on vertical part in a vise and try to redress the tailpiece. If instead it's flexible:
I noticed something myself on my archtop after replacing the saddle. The stringholder bar on mine is attached to 2 wires of unequal length such that screwing on the treble-side nut completely the bar is no longer perpendicular to the tailpiece centre line. I just noticed it wasn't screwed on completely so tightened it, and noticed it was tricky to get everything to align when bringing the strings back to tension. After a few days the asymmetry bothered me enough to loosen the strings, unscrew the nut as needed and then tune back up.
But this time I started tensioning the centre strings, which are a bit easier to tune up in sync so as to get a straight pull aligned with the centre seam.
With a tailpiece like on this guitar I would expect that if you start by stringing up (and bringing up to pitch) from the 1st to the 6th in succession you can actually pull the tailpiece out of alignment towards the treble side. Without much chance to pull it back into alignment completely because the tension of the lower strings tends to be lower and those steel strings simply can't stretch.
So, simple experiment: what happens if you remove all tension from all but the 3rd and 4th strings? Simple, but probably moot if the tailpiece isn't supposed to have horizontal freedom of movement.
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