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I dunno I got a Gibson because I like the guitar, rather than any ideological rationale.
I’d rather have fewer quality instruments than lots of cheap ones though.
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05-05-2024 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Spook410
Originally Posted by Spook410
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Too bad about Spencer—for years I would see it on the shelf and think "I should try that sometime." Beer and guitars are two of the good things in life.
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 05-05-2024 at 10:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
But, many small British bespoke car builders are going strong.
Caterham
AC Cobra.
Ineos Grenadier
Ariel Nomad
Just for perspective, the AC company also manufactured this disabled car for the UK government.
Last edited by GuyBoden; 05-06-2024 at 04:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by pan60
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although the death is an exaduration
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Originally Posted by RJVB
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound
--JS Bach
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Looking at my current collection--I have 5 US-made guitars (2 Gibsons, 1 Taylor, 1 Harmony, 1 Kay), 1 Japanese (Gretsch), 2 Chinese (Voyage Air, Cordoba). I've had a number of Korean-made guitars, as well, all of which were excellent.
Re' the British auto manufacturing, there are still quite a lot of factories in Britain making cars, just for foreign owners: Mini, Land Rover, Bentley, Rolls, MG, etc.
I haven't done a deep dive into the reasons, but I've heard it described as "death by a thousand cuts." The build quality of English cars in the 70s-90s was not great compared to the competition, especially Japanese imports. Plus there were some devastating labor strikes during that time period. I believe several of the manufacturers like BL were propped up by the government, but this is just going off of memory. Not necessarily a lack of patriotism per se, but good old-fashioned capitalism that killed British car companies.
And that comes back to guitars. Actually the OP could have written this in the '60s, at least as applied to cheaper American offerings. American companies have ALWAYS sold premium guitars to a hungry public. However, the cheaper Fenders and Gibsons, not to mention Harmony and Kay, were killed off by foreign competition initially from Japan. Many if not most of us and in fact many famous musicians like Keith Richards, Jeff Beck and Rory Gallagher first played Japanese guitars. (The Beatles made do with imports from Germany, Holland and South Africa.)
So for at least 50 years it has not been profitable for US companies to make modestly-priced guitars in the US. They have stuck with the more premium guitars, and farm out the cheaper stuck to (mainly) Asia. This will likely not change in our lifetimes.
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Anyway, not really. British Leyland was an unwieldy conglomerate created by mergers of many small companies and weirdly incapable of producing anything better than almost good cars seemingly all afflicted by some strange flaw or other. Ultimately BL was defeated by their basic inability to produce products - set against, say, German imports - that people would actually want to buy all things being equal. The bloody thing was partially nationalised. Our export market wasn’t exactly vibrant lol.
See also, Thatcher. And the Trabant.
(I suppose Jaguars were nice.)
For the gory and sometime hilarious details I refer you to the YouTube channel ‘intergalactic binman’; for my own anecdotal experience I spent much of my childhood in an endless string of Austins, rovers and Vauxhalls (and also Fords and Renaults, to be fair) looking wistfully at slightly better off families in their VW Golf’s. Now I drive a Golf. It’s very good.
Actually I remember the Astra fondly. But it was a rebranded Opel, not an indigenous model. Also at that time Vauxhall was owned by GM lol
So yea, dues paid. Not my fault lol. Maybe look at the systemic issues with the politics and economics behind the lamentable tale of British Leyland’s demise than blaming a lack of patriotism lol. In fact patriotic goodwill may have insulated BL from an inevitable reckoning for years.
Simple narratives are appealing, the world is messy.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 05-06-2024 at 02:35 PM.
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Otoh Gibson despite all the carping produces nice guitars that people want to own. People like me .
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
That's probably not why Spain is also the country associated with the guitar.
In fact, if you look at US catalogues from the early 20th C you'll see a lot of domestic instruments described a "Spanish guitars", regardless of whether they were steel or gut-strung.
Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Originally Posted by RJVB
As far as MG, I guess they made cars there in '16-17. SAIC motors invested about half a billion $$ to make MGs there, but in the end it didn't work out. Lots of Chinese MGs in the UK though.
BTW, there is a seriously sexy MG electric that I would buy in a heartbeat if it ever made its way to these shores. Supposed to be cheap too.
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Nice. I’ll have two.
But yeah the British marques have overseas owners.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
BTW, there is a seriously sexy MG electric that I would buy in a heartbeat if it ever made its way to these shores. Supposed to be cheap too.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
So, guitars. A completely non-consequential bit of manufactured goods, if people buy them based on country of manufacture instead of design, workmanship, materials, and other bits of goodness, do you think the resulting guitars are going to be better or worse? Ayn Rand had it right. Goodness comes from productivity, innovation, competition, and hard work. Not populism, nationalism, and blind faith.Last edited by Spook410; 05-07-2024 at 04:21 AM.
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One of the funniest film lines ever, was in one of the Tom Hanks renaissance adventure films. When the good/bad guy is cleaning up after his stabbing murdering, he says something like "Not my best work, but good enough for Italians."
I can say that as a second born italian/polish.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
I once got a book on the history of Gibson and was surprised to see photos of all these weird old electric hawaiian things, I didn’t realise they were so popular then.
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Originally Posted by Spook410
Originally Posted by Spook410
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Originally Posted by Spook410
General 1 — Dehradun Guitar Company
Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
Of course that's everyone's own choice, but when it is evangelicised that's when it starts to become irksome. (And this may be difficult to conceive for some, but the irk level does depend on how big/visible/omnipresent the country in question is.)
Anyway, about that Morgan a bit back ... is that a Guzzi or a H-D twin poking out of its nose? Looks more like the latter, which would be a bit surpising for a British car
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Originally Posted by RJVB
As I said previously, I'm sure your Chinese guitars are great. I was simply pointing out that there are other considerations when purchasing guitars.
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Originally Posted by Jazz4Four
I do consider provenance when I buy an instrument, but ultimately sound, characteristics and build quality are why I might want to buy a particular instrument, and price is going to determine if I will or if I can't.
And of course, from where I'm sitting it doesn't really matter from an ecological point of view if I buy a from across an ocean or across an old wall
Elias Prinz -- young talent from Munich
Yesterday, 10:24 PM in The Players