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“Minimalism is a scam created by Big Small to sell more less.” Or something like that. My old guitar teacher (who was, himself a master jazz and classical musician) had a best friend whom he met when they both worked at Yamaha. As a broke jazz musician (not many rich ones, thankfully the music exists for itself), he channeled all his resources and know-how to help his best friend buy Fender Guitars from CBS (Leo sold it to the media corporation some time before). CBS didn’t care one iota about Fender, it never made them much money.
So, what did he do when he took over Fender? He standardized and rationalized the production process, such that it could be replicated anywhere, in Japan, in Mexico and the US. Anywhere. I learned that the total time of production-from absolute start to final finish-for the average Fender plank/slab guitar is 3 hours, thirty minutes.
Mr. Schultz, who bought Fender from CBS and revolutionized guitar production there, moved from Arizona where Fender HQ was located and sadly spent the last year of his life visiting Northwestern Hospital in Chicago, for cancer treatment. It didn’t’ work.
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04-29-2024 10:42 PM
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This brings to mind Lee Ritenour playing a Yamaha RS420 which at the time (2019) sold for less than $400. However, they are no longer made and the used ones cost more than that. How's that for a budget guitar?
(His son, Wes Carlton, is playing the drums on this video. To hear the clean sound of that guitar go to the 50:00 minute point of the video, he switches to an L5 later in the song. What a contrast in price point.)
Last edited by fep; 04-30-2024 at 11:15 AM.
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When I walk through a guitar center, I see guitars that cost between $300 and $3000. I would even want to own some of them, if:
- I could hear myself play one of them
- they had been set up
- the sales help would ask me what I was looking for
- the sales help was someone knowledgeable and that I could talk to, about anything
- I didn't possess the knowledge that when processing orders, companies will send better instruments to the smaller stores, where they are more likely to be sent back if they have a flaw or have problems with nut, frets, bridge, truss rod, etc.
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I regularly play a Yamaha Pacifica 012, made in Indonesia. It has replacement tuners, pu, switch and output jack. So, I guess the original hardware wasn't great.
OTOH, playability couldn't be better and it stays in tune really well. I think they did a better job with the wood than the metal.
It doesn't sound as good as my Comins GCS-1, but I've played a lot of gigs with it and never had a complaint.
It sold just a few years ago for $179, including amp, carrying bag, cable and book.
It is surprising to me that a decent guitar kit could sell for that price.
It also surprises me that there are Tele styles that go for more than $2000, when Leo designed it to be cheap to manufacture - and the old ones are revered.
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Though to be fair, Leo was NOT marketing the Tele as a cheapie...he was going right for the pros. It was priced accordingly, I think a Tele was $150 back in the 50's, which would be over $1700 today.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Regarding cheap instruments, if there's going to be a place that sells them, Guitar Center is the perfect environment...or at least was. I remember as a kid how intimidating a small music store could be, quiet, the owner watching you like a hawk...
Though I imagine most people just order online nowadays.
I own inexpensive guitars mostly, by the scope of what some folks spend (I've never spent over 2k on a guitar.) I also think we're in the golden age of affordable instruments. GC moving away from that seems like a mistake, but then again, maybe that's why I'm not in charge of the financial decisions of any big corporations.
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I think it shows that the best player with a quality amp can make any guitar sound good. Originally Posted by fep
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Certainly Fender isn't too happy about the global competition. And I'm sure Guitar Center would rather sell $2000 guitars than $300 guitars. However, if either's business models relied on what most here would consider a serious musician, they would have gone under years ago. Of course, they want you to think that for image marketing. But economic viability for big box instrument sellers is going to be based on amateur folk singers, garage rock bands, and boomers with cash.
We live in the age of good and cheap solid body guitars because technology has boosted production and global competition has lowered the price. Just enjoy it.Last edited by Spook410; 04-30-2024 at 07:09 PM.
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In 1953, the Tele was $190 and a Gibson L5 was $415. The ratio 2024 to 1953 dollars is about 11.5. Not cheap, but, back then, cheap guitars weren't very good. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Anyone raise their hand who wouldn't want a $300 guitar that sounds good (and plays well) enough to be enjoy playing and/or making money with all without having to worry about depreciation. Mr. CEO apparently didn't think about that...
Nor about absolute beginners, young kids (and their parents).
I consider myself a serious enough musician even if a mere amateur, but I am about as unlikely to wander into a store I know only has $300 (and less) instruments as one that only has instruments 10x that and up. What (pro) musician wouldn't enjoy glancing over the offerings for potential future colleagues, esp. if there's a clear thought and enthusiasm behind it?
I'm a bit lost with the Fender story in the OP, unless it's to imply that their planks probably can't cost much more than $300 to produce? (How much would their workers get paid per hour?)
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You and me both. Applies to most commenters on the internet as a rule LOL. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It's worth remembering that ALL decisions no matter how trivial eventually can be traced back to a human who made that decision based on certain facts. Of course people make mistakes, but that doesn't mean there's no thought or rationality in the decision-making.
At a certain point with a company it gets to be a question of survival and health of the company, not sentimental attachment to a certain type of product like an archtop guitar.
That said, the local GC is of marginal interest to me. I go there for certain things the smaller stores won't carry--an iPad holder, for instance. I bought my Cordoba Stage there because they were the first place in town to carry it when it came out. They gave me a generous offer for a trade-in and a 10% discount for some random reason--bought on a Tuesday for instance.
There used to be some pretty knowledgeable people there that had been around awhile, but most of them seem to have gone to one of the local places where their skills are more appreciated.
I view GC the same way I view Walmart and Home Depot. Good for certain things, don't expect great personal service (though occasionally surprised).
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It is the golden age of affordable guitars. How I wish there were student guitars like this in the 60’s. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Let’s see if this strategy pays off. I suggest a pool on how many months until GC announces a new CEO.Last edited by Alder Statesman; 05-01-2024 at 10:19 PM.
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I suspect it's a big nothing - marketing speak. Not much will change, why the fuss?
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Raise the baseline and compete with real stores, rather than lowering margins to compete with online retailers. I think we will see more of this strategy in many areas of retail.
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This is what he said:
I don't think he is saying that serious musicians never ever want or use 300USD guitars. I think he is saying that serious musicians' favourite guitar shop is probably not a GC, which has a lot of focus on 300 USD guitars.If you walk through a Guitar Center, you see an awful lot of $300 guitars. If I'm a serious musician, it doesn't feel like the right place for me anymore.
He uses is the words "feel like the right place". If it doesn't "feel like the right place", it doesn't mean that GC doesn't have any products a serious musician would buy or use, or that they will never buy anything from them in any situation.
But it does mean that the serious musicians might go out of their way to do business with GC's competitors which caters better to their needs and wishes.Last edited by orri; 05-02-2024 at 07:14 AM.
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Firstly, he said "serious musician" which I interpret as "someone who has been playing long enough to know what they want/don't want in a guitar and who understands why a Tele isn't a White Falcon, aside from the looks." Using that translation, I'd agree with him.
Secondly, on the road to becoming that "serious musician" the player has, presumably, already owned at least one $300 guitar. If they really loved it, they probably still have it so they don't need another one. I have owned a few cheap Strat copies over the last 50 years but now I own 3 Fenders so if I want a Strat sound I don't need a $300 guitar. If everything I owned burned to the ground I would be very comfortable buying a Yamaha Pacifica to fill in the gap while I waited for the insurance cheque.Last edited by Banksia; 05-02-2024 at 05:30 AM. Reason: I thought I deleted the pic of my recent $300 guitar purchase but it's still there.
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Dang, why did you post that pic? Another guitar to lust after...beautiful. Originally Posted by Banksia
I think these (Italia Torino) are a bit more than $300 though. Do you own one?
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Yamaha absolutely kill at everything they do. Their student models are rock solid. I recommend their student half size classicals for students and they are nice instruments. Not the cheapest tho. I’ve seen a lot of basically cardboard guitars… (shudder). Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Rosenwinkel has been rocking a Yamaha SG for a while… I looked up the price remembering the time in the 90s you could pick one up for like £200. Got a shock haha.
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I bought it on Yahoo Auctions Japan for about 35,000 Yen which is about $US250. All up, delivered to my house in Sydney, I spent about $US420 Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
It's used. That's the 2013 15th Anniversary model so only 10 years old and made in Korea.Last edited by Banksia; 05-03-2024 at 04:06 AM.
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On Reverb they're about $1000 new. That's par for the course for (what looks to be) a Korean made archtop. $420 seems like a steal. Originally Posted by Banksia
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Maybe the new CEO...
...notices overstocked inventories of low price guitars
(you see an awful lot of $300 guitars)
...publicly trial balloons phasing out low priced guitars
(doesn't feel like the right place for me anymore)
...enjoys company wide sales boost from panic buying
(the firm's future)
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Jack Pearson is a serious a musician as you can find, and he gigged for years on a Squire Strat that he found at a Guitar Center, IIRC. Said it was one of the best sounding Strats he'd ever run across.
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Hot take - the last people a rational Guitar Centre CEO would wish to attract is serious musicians.
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Where did you acquire this knowledge? Originally Posted by enalnitram
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Emmanuel Michael
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