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Always trying to find ways to reduce weight of equipment im wondering how it would sound playing an archtop through a TCE BAM 200 or Trace Elliot Elf. If anyone has done this please share your thoghts about sound and response of these amps. Both are actually bass amps, but i like the AI Clarus which was originally designed as a bass amp too, so i guess that won't be really a problem.
Last edited by JazzNote; 04-21-2024 at 06:39 AM.
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04-21-2024 05:32 AM
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I have not played through those amps but I do share an interest in "weight reduction".
I have found an amp and speaker that I really like. They were a combo originally - Carlsbro Sherwood.
My first attempt was to strip the head from the speaker cab and this split the weight to about 2/3 & 1/3 (with the heaviest being the speaker cab at 14kg).
The cab was made from 5/8" chipboard - I have now redesigned it to be 1/4" plywood. I needed to be careful about the use of webs and struts in order to keep the stiffening, but the weight now is less than 5kg (with the 12" speaker being the heaviest fraction).
I will post a 'before and after' sound file to give you some idea of what the light-weight design sounds like.
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My lightest amp at the time is a mambo 8" wedge at about 7kg, providing a great sound. I recently bought a Toob 6.5 BG "cabinet" which weighs only about 2kg, now looking at those extra light amps (under 1kg) to have a super light option, as it gets more and more difficult in the cities here to get close to venues by car. Fortunately i prefer the sound of smaller speakers (i prefer a 8" to a 10" and a 10" to a 12"), so there's no temptation to carry around heavy cabinets ;-).
Originally Posted by nbevan3
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I've played the TE elf and also the other one in that range, the Warwick Gnome. Both over the TOOB Metro GP.
The elf has the nicest tone of both, smooth without any harsh notes on top. Also bass is not too much.
The Gnome is similar, but it needs better adjustment of the tone controls to get a smooth jazz sound (but it's only half the price of the elf).
I did not played the BAM yet.
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As the Toob guy, I've gone through over 20 micro-amps. Among these, 200W bass amps including G+K MB200, Elf, two Gnome versions and BAM200. Pity the G+K is no longer made, as it's the best bass amp of these. However, for guitar it's sterile and dry.
Of the other three, Elf is the cutest/dearest, Gnome the loudest and BAM the roundest. Whenever my SuperBlock US lacks punch, I use the BAM. Warm, neutral, pleasant and eq shelves in perfect places for guitar. Not as dynamic as tube amps, for sure, but with a reverb chip added it would come close to the Holy Grail for the gigging jazz guitarist. My son plays medium heavy rock (check Tuomas Pietinen on YouTube), and he prefers the BAM over many other alternatives as the power amp between his pedalboard and a 12" TOOB cab. A strong recommendation from me and, as I believe, numerous Toob/Metro users.
A tentative observation, however: it seems that the BAM is more popular in Europe than in the US. Do different voltage versions sound different, or is it a function of the Fender content in our respective DNAs? Some early BAMs tended to hiss whenever the green load indicator went on, but I think this hasn't been an issue for years.Last edited by Gitterbug; 04-21-2024 at 09:47 AM.
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I had a BAM for a bit but moved it onto a friend. It is a good hi fi amp style which gives a transparent reproduction of your guitars natural sound - no onboard reverb.
Me not using this amp was more a matter personal preference. It does what it does well and several of my peers are using BAMs with TOOBs for gigs.
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what makes the G+K MB200 superiour in your opinion (compared to the BAM or Elf). Originally Posted by Gitterbug
Thanks!
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Noted above, the GK is sterile and dry as a guitar amp. I own that amp and an Elf. I use them for acoustic and electric 10-string mandolin. The GK is better as the acoustic amp, tone bands at 60, 250, 1,000, and 7,000 Hz.
The Elf has three tone bands, at 80, 400, and 4,200 Hz. It has character, especially the treble at the important 4K range, where guitar speakers are still reproducing highs, and where much of the color resides.
Hard to beat the Elf's 130 watts into 8 ohms in a 1.6 lb. package, small enough to fit in the accessory pocket of your gig bag.
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For bass, that is: Four-band eq, -10dB switch, contour switch, i.e. more versatile and "professional", also louder than BAM. Elf has a voice of its own, and, as another poster pointed out, Gnome requires some tweaking to contain certain harshness when in guitar use. I've had two G+Ks, and was compelled to sell both to bassists as part of an amp/cab deal. One managed to kill his and has searched all over for a replacement ever since. He now uses the Gnome. Originally Posted by JazzNote
This is just a semi-qualified opinion. I've come to the conclusion that no two double basses or their electronics are the same. Plus, their players are great individuals, with different tastes and styles.
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Thanks Marku, Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I found one for sale here in Switzerland. Might be a hassle to have it sent to Finland though .....
Just a moment...
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Yeah, we both know a thing or two about shipping rates to and from Switzerland. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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I bought one of the first Elfs (Elves?) because it was a small, light, powerful amp that sounded great. I used it on some gigs for maybe 4 years before selling to another forum member because I just have too many amps. It was great with every one of my speaker cabs from tiny to Thiele Boogie w/EVM.
The Elf is a fine match with archtops - excellent sound quality with good EQ. It was quiet, powerful, and versatile. Be aware that it’s designed with compression that’s not switchable. This works well for jazz on an archtop if you want a bit more sustain, and it enhances an inherently thunky tone. But it also tames a bit of the sparkle of a woody acoustic tone.
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One thing to say to the credit of these 200W bass amps is that they're remarkably quiet on normal guitar volumes, and the cooling fans switch on rarely if ever. The BAM runs a little warmer to the hand than the rest. Some people attribute that to the Mosfet preamp and equate it with warmer sound. Must borrow the Elf back from my grandson for a fresh A/B/C with BAM and Gnome.
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yes i have used a BAM200 a bit
for jazz guitar ….
yeah it works pretty good
note , it is super clean , in fact i wish
it had a bit more dirt
sorry i can’t cp it to an ELF
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I'm the guy who bought that Elf and what neverdave says is still true. Some of the gigs are moderate sized theaters. I also use it for bass (through a bigger cabinet). It sounds good with any cabinet I've tried. The DV Mark in the photo is good for bass but the Elf is much better for guitar. I don't know why the photo is sideways. It is right side up in my computer. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I just wish these amps had reverb, but of course they're bass amps, so...
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This is what I've trying to preach for years. Quilter manages to fit an excellent reverb chip to the SuperBlocks, so why is it impossible for other amp makers? Over the years, I have approached several: G+K, Fender, GSS at least - at best symbolic, mostly no reaction. Have attempted to access others: Vox, TC Electronics, Trace Elliot - no handle to reach them. These are marketing lines/brands of biggies such as Korg or Behringer who clamshell on a corporate level. Quilter was responsive earlier but less so recently, despite the high number of SuperBlocks sold to TOOB/Metro users. So I sometimes feel my market presence is seen as parasitic rather than symbiotic. With micro-amp forever-searcher, guitarist Greg Ruggiero from Brooklyn, NY, we've tried to launch cooperation with two Eastern European amp manufacturers. One vanished from the radar screen, the other has introduced a succession of over-featured, overdrive/rock geared amps. The opposite of our requests. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Pardon the rant. As amp heads go, we do have Quilter, Henriksen, DV Mark, Milkman and then some. Almost none of this a decade ago, so a lot to thank for. Yet, the 200W bass micro amps prove there could be guitar amps half the size and price of the above..
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Ha, there are some pretty usable reverb pedals like the TC hall of fame, for a good price. Actually i didn't like the integrated presets a lot, but there's the option to load external files and i found some really sophisticated algorhythms: one designed by Adam Holzman, another by Albert Lee and a third by Robben Ford which are just exactly matching my taste. Studio quality stuff! Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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The HOF mini is a pretty good reverb pedal, small and light. For power, I use a small 9V battery box with rechargeable lithium batteries. It's not so onerous to carry, nor hard to set up, and there are hundreds of patches available for free, all with different sounds, replaceable via any smartphone. With a reverb built into an amp, you get the sound you get, no choices.
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