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I bought a 2011 175 new and it had the laminated fretboard.
The fretboard was so stiff that the trussrod didn’t work.
It also didn’t even look like rosewood.
It was made shortly after the wood Nazi raid.
You can’t blame Gibson for this. That was a crazy event.
Troopers with M-16’s raiding a guitar maker.
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04-25-2024 11:42 AM
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Enforcing a law (the Lacey Act) that Gibson knew about- it's been in place for a 124 years so far, the entire time Gibson has been in business- and did not comply with. The blame here is Gibson's, Henry J's kvetching notwithstanding. Federal marshals did not go into Gibson's factory with guns blazing. Police officers are armed at all times while on duty, after all, so of course they were armed when they arrived at Gibson.
Office of Public Affairs | Gibson Guitar Corp. Agrees to Resolve Investigation into Lacey Act Violations | United States Department of Justice Emphasis mine:
"Gibson Guitar Corp. entered into a criminal enforcement agreement with the United States today resolving a criminal investigation into allegations that the company violated the Lacey Act by illegally purchasing and importing ebony wood from Madagascar and rosewood and ebony from India.The agreement was announced today by Assistant Attorney General Ignacia S. Moreno of the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, Jerry Martin, U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee and Dan Ashe, Director of the Department of the Interior’s U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.
The criminal enforcement agreement defers prosecution for criminal violations of the Lacey Act and requires Gibson to pay a penalty amount of $300,000. The agreement further provides for a community service payment of $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to be used to promote the conservation, identification and propagation of protected tree species used in the musical instrument industry and the forests where those species are found. Gibson will also implement a compliance program designed to strengthen its compliance controls and procedures. In related civil forfeiture actions, Gibson will withdraw its claims to the wood seized in the course of the criminal investigation, including Madagascar ebony from shipments with a total invoice value of $261,844.
In light of Gibson’s acknowledgement of its conduct, its duties under the Lacey Act and its promised cooperation and remedial actions, the government will decline charging Gibson criminally in connection with Gibson’s order, purchase or importation of ebony from Madagascar and ebony and rosewood from India, provided that Gibson fully carries out its obligations under the agreement, and commits no future violations of law, including Lacey Act violations.
“As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”
“The Department of Justice is committed to enforcing the laws enacted by Congress,” said U.S. Attorney Martin. “Failure to do so harms those who play by the rules and follow the law. This criminal enforcement agreement goes a long way in demonstrating the government’s commitment to protecting the world’s natural resources. The agreement is fair and just in that it assesses serious penalties for Gibson’s behavior while allowing Gibson to continue to focus on the business of making guitars.”
“The Lacey Act’s illegal logging provisions were enacted with bipartisan support in Congress to protect vanishing foreign species and forest ecosystems, while ensuring a level playing field for America’s forest products industry and the people and communities who depend on it,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Ashe. “We’re pleased that Gibson Guitar Corp. has recognized its duties under the Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin from threatened forests and has taken responsibility for actions that may have contributed to the unlawful export and exploitation of wood from some of the world’s most threatened forests.”
Since May 2008, it has been illegal under the Lacey Act to import into the United States plants and plant products (including wood) that have been harvested and exported in violation of the laws of another country. Congress extended the protections of the Lacey Act, the nation’s oldest resource protection law, to these products in an effort to address the environmental and economic impact of illegal logging around the world.
The criminal enforcement agreement includes a detailed statement of facts describing the conduct for which Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility. The facts establish the following:
Madagascar Ebony is a slow-growing tree species and supplies are considered threatened in its native environment due to over-exploitation. Both legal and illegal logging of Madagascar Ebony and other tree species have significantly reduced Madagascar’s forest cover. Madagascar’s forests are home to many rare endemic species of plants and animals . The harvest of ebony in and export of unfinished ebony from, Madagascar has been banned since 2006. [N.B- by the Madagascar government]
Gibson purchased “fingerboard blanks,” consisting of sawn boards of Madagascar ebony, for use in manufacturing guitars. The Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks were ordered from a supplier who obtained them from an exporter in Madagascar. Gibson’s supplier continued to receive Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its Madagascar exporter after the 2006 ban. The Madagascar exporter did not have authority to export ebony fingerboard blanks after the law issued in Madagascar in 2006.
In 2008, an employee of Gibson participated in a trip to Madagascar, sponsored by a non-profit organization. Participants on the trip, including the Gibson employee, were told that a law passed in 2006 in Madagascar banned the harvest of ebony and the export of any ebony products that were not in finished form. They were further told by trip organizers that instrument parts, such as fingerboard blanks, would be considered unfinished and therefore illegal to export under the 2006 law. Participants also visited the facility of the exporter in Madagascar, from which Gibson’s supplier sourced its Madagascar ebony, and were informed that the wood at the facility was under seizure at that time and could not be moved.
After the Gibson employee returned from Madagascar with this information, he conveyed the information to superiors and others at Gibson. The information received by the Gibson employee during the June 2008 trip, and sent to company management by the employee and others following the June 2008 trip, was not further investigated or acted upon prior to Gibson continuing to place orders with its supplier. Gibson received four shipments of Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its supplier between October 2008 and September 2009.
This case was investigated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service with assistance from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The case was handled by the Environmental Crimes Section of the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Tennessee."
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I had never thought about the increased stiffness of a fingerboard fighting the truss rod adjustment, but I do believe it's likely a 'thing'. It's got to make for one rigid board. Of course, maybe if it's dialed in nicely, it's less likely to move out of place (?)
Thanks for the thought,
Greg
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Regardless of how rigid it is, adjustments are necessary over the lifetime of an instrument. My dad's steinberger had a carbon/fiber neck and fingerboard. No trussrod. Guaranteed against warping. Except the company went out of business and the neck bowed to the point of needing more than a 16th planed off the nut and bridge sides. Enough that the bridge couldn't be adjusted low enough without counter-sinking it.
Originally Posted by Gregc57
So much for stiffness being insurance against neck moving!
I kind of wonder if Vinnie's guitar had other issues though because I have an instrument with a resin fingerboard and the truss rod works on it...
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I have a 1st generation Parker Fly, never tried, and never needed to turn the rod. More Non-defining info, I know, but a data point on stiff necks and boards.
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Regarding necks with no truss rod...
My dad bought a carbon fiber steinberger in the '80s. The salesman (Chuck Levins, Wheaton, MD) demonstrated it's sturdiness by swinging it from the neck and banging it onto the carpeted floor. After playing it for a while, my dad said I'll take it - but not that one...
Segue to 2016. Dad wasn't using it and asked me to sell it for him. Action was ridiculously high due to a bowed neck. I took it to my local repairman who told me,
- There's no truss rod so I can't adjust it
- The only fix is to plain the nut end and tail end of fingerboard
- however, I need to take off so much material that the bridge will be too high
- I'll have to countersink the bridge
- by the way, I don't have the tools to level a carbon/fiber fingerboard
A few years ago, a friend of mine had a Klein, ergo guitar. Sounded amazing. Really comfortable to play. Over time, it developed a bow. He took it to a repairman and was told it had no truss rod so it couldn't be fixed without pulling the frets, planing the board, refretting.
He sent it back to klein who
- took off the .011 strings
- put on a set of .010 strings
- - voila - problem solved.
- Sent it back to the customer!
- Customer pretty unhappy with that "repair"
I wouldn't buy a guitar without a truss rod.
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by the way, I have a kiesel with synthetic fingerboard. It's very stiff. Much stiffer than ebony. The truss rod functions properly on that instrument.
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Being the proud owner of an early 70's Martin D28 with no truss rod, that I am not able to play because the action is so high, which breaks my heart, I'm with the "only guitars with truss rods" club.
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I think I'd only buy a classical without a truss rod.
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I have a Cordoba classical and I wish it had a truss rod. The new Cordoba Stage I bought DOES have a truss rod and I'm glad, I have already had to use it. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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LOL! Lighter strings is not a fix. I don't think I'd ever buy a guitar without a truss rod. I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night!
Greg
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Yeah, it's not so much that I wouldn't want one, I just know if I were ever to buy a really nice hand built classical, it's probably not going to have a truss rod--traditional builders just don't use them. Of course if I'm spending that kind of money I'd be able to get that guitar set to exactly where I want it. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
My Yamaha classical does not have a truss rod, but the neck is a traditional thick profile, with normal tension strings, I don't think the setup has moved at all since I got it. I suppose we'll see how it handles summer-- might need to have two saddles on hand for different weather.
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