mid-ranginess?

[RJVB]

I've often seen archtops described as being mid-rangy (acoustically at least). One of the things that I seem to be noticing now that I have a wooden-with-bone-insert saddle on my Loar is that I have to be (even) more careful with the trebles to avoid them overpowering the middle strings.

I know I'm not necessarily hearing the same thing as people a few meters away from the instrument, and I'm also aware that I had played mostly my nylon stringers before fitting the new saddle. But could it be that this mid-ranginess is (largely) related to having a wooden saddle which probably filters out more from the 2 trebles strings than it does from the other strings?

[Jimmy Smith]

I noticed a huge difference with bone. The tone you're hearing could absolutely be caused by the saddle. I don't recommend bone. It conducts extremely poorly and makes the sound worse imo.

[sgosnell]

Bone actually conducts sound much better than wood. That's the main reason why bone is used on flat-tops. Whether the sound is better is a subjective opinion. I believe it depends on the guitar. I find that one of my guitars sounds better with the bridge/saddle style the OP installed, but not all of them. My method of finding the best bridge/saddle is simple - try different ones until I'm satisfied, or can't find anything better. It may not be the best method, but it's the only one I know. I can't predict in advance how any combination will sound, even after decades of trying.

[Tom Wright]

The arch top is stiffer than a flat top, and the f-holes allow it to move in a piston-like way. The bracing adds to this motion. This is nest for the mids. It affects violins and mandolins, as well.

A flat top with X bracing with move more like a drum head, which allows a wider spectrum, but puts less energy into the midrange band. Archtop f-hole mandolins project better, but oval/round hole mandolins are more spread in tone color.

Jazz likes the focused tone of the archtop, because it fits between drums and bass. Flattop guitars are better without drums.

[pauln]

I don't think good or poor conduction is the issue, but which will result in the tone desired. When I replaced the stock metal bridge of adjustable metal saddles on my arch top with a single piece wooden bridge, I noticed immediately that the irritating "zing" of the plain strings was all but gone. When I put big flats on it, I was delighted; any nearly subliminal residual zing was completely masked. That was just a guess and I was lucky.

If you start with assuming that the string is the primary generator of sound in both the acoustic and electric guitar:
- filtering means passing some parts of the frequency response more than other parts
- every conduction passage is a potential pass filter (low pass, high pass, band pass, complicated pass)
- low conduction through the bridge/saddle would allow more energy to remain in the string
- high conduction means easily drawing off or taking the energy from the string
- an acoustic guitar would depend on how much of the sound energy in the string is acoustically loading the body cavity and how much is drivings the top through the bridge
- with an electric guitar, the primary signal is from the relative motion of the string and the magnetic field, with secondary components depending on the bridge/saddle conduction (and filtering), and the degree to which the body vibration moves the pickup field sufficient to be another relative motion component to superimpose on the primary relative movement between string and field
- ... and there are more considerations, and they are also interactive, but just these and their combinations are enough to shroud much in mystery.

[RJVB]

When I replaced the stock metal bridge of adjustable metal saddles on my arch top with a single piece wooden bridge, I noticed immediately that the irritating "zing" of the plain strings was all but gone.

I'd expect that, indeed, and I think there's definitely a bit more zing in the plain strings now on mine. Plus the old Spectrum D and A that I had started to find to sound a bit too dead even to my taste now seem to have gotten a 2nd lease on life.

However we're very bad at the sort of comparisons I'm doing here. I know I made some significant changes and my mind can just be trying to confirm that. I should have kept my promise to make some fresh recordings before changing the bridge...

[RJVB]

I can't predict in advance how any combination will sound, even after decades of trying.

You can't even explain it in retrospect, based on why you prefer the sound with the one or the other type of saddle?

[sgosnell]

No. Some guitars sound better to me with footed bridge bases, some with solid. I've found no reliable way to tell, even after swapping, and it's the same with other factors. Maybe I'm just too dense to see it. Every guitar top is different, whether by design or by random factors, and I just can't say in advance what will sound better or worse.