Fixing string buzz on a strat copy

[WimWalther]

Hey gents,

I'm playing around, trying to fix a string buzz issue on a cheap Lyon strat copy. The low E buzzes on the first 1-2 frets when plucked strongly.

If I loosen the truss rod nut, am I correct that this will add relief (make the neck curve more) increasing the gap between string & fret bars?

Or is this the wrong way to go about it? What about the height adjustment at the bridge end?

Thanks..

[sgosnell]

Either or both. Both are reversible if necessary.

[John A.]

Hey gents,

I'm playing around, trying to fix a string buzz issue on a cheap Lyon strat copy. The low E buzzes on the first 1-2 frets when plucked strongly.

If I loosen the truss rod nut, am I correct that this will add relief (make the neck curve more) increasing the gap between string & fret bars?

.
Yes, but if there's already a reasonable amount of relief, increasing the relief might not be the right thing to do to address this problem. So measure relief first. If there's none, try loosening the truss rod. If you get to within a reasonable range about of relief (.006- .010") and it still buzzes, lack of relief is not the cause

Or is this the wrong way to go about it? What about the height adjustment at the bridge end?

Measure first (after first getting the relief right). Typical strat action is 4-5/64" at the 12th fret. If you're below 4/64", try raising it a little. If you're already at or above 5, look for a different cause.

The next place to look is nut slot depth. Here's a method for checking that.. A low nut slot is actually the most likely culprit, but you can't actually be sure until you get the action and relief right, so that's why this comes last. This is especially true for strats with whammy bars (the wound strings act like little files when you use the bar). The fix for that is to fill the slot with a mix of baking soda and super glue, and then re-file it (or replace the nut and file all the slots to the correct depth). I've had my strat for about 35 years -- I'm on my second nut, and have had to fill/re-file the low E and A slots a couple of times on it, as a point of reference. I've never had to do this on another guitar (except for one I had with a slot that came too low from the factory).

[WimWalther]

John,

That all sounds very reasonable, thanks. Yes, I'm also concerned that the nut slot may be too deep.. but I had no idea how to correct it short of replacement - which is above my current pay grade.

Fwiw, while it does have tremolo, the p/o never used it. The bar was missing, and had been so as long as he'd owned it. The female thread for the bar was also an issue - when I got a new (6mm) bar, it would only go in about 3.5 turns.

I'll gauge the action distances tonight, and report back what I find. The help is much appreciated!

[WimWalther]

John,

So measure relief first. If there's none, try loosening the truss rod. If you get to within a reasonable range about of relief (.006- .010") and it still buzzes, lack of relief is not the cause

I'm not clear on where I should be measuring this .006-.010" figure? Do you mean between the string and 1st / 2nd fret bars?

[Zigracer]

The nut slot for the low E is cut too low. Fill it and re file to the proper depth.

[John A.]

John,



I'm not clear on where I should be measuring this .006-.010" figure? Do you mean between the string and 1st / 2nd fret bars?

.

No, you measure relief at around the midpoint between the first fret and the body joint. Exactly where that is varies from guitar to guitar. Fender’s spec says to hold down (or capo) the low E string at the first fret and press it down at the fret where the neck joins the body (17th). Then measure the gap between the bottom of the low E string and the top of the 8th fret.

[teeps]

Check for high frets. Use a Fret rocker.

[WimWalther]

Briefly,

I'm beginning to think that something else is up with this git. At first I was sure that I was hearing the string(s) buzzing against the fret bars.. but now I'm not so sure.

Need to take a fresh look at it. It's starting to feel like I'm chasing my tail.

[omphalopsychos]

If the buzz is happening while you are fretting the first two frets, it can't possibly be due to a low nut slot. It could be a lack of relief or inconsistent fret height. The former is easier to remedy.

Don't start increasing the action until you measure and adjust the relief appropriately. You will find, probably, that you want to increase relief (which will give the lower frets more clearance) and then lower the action slightly.

Here's a video you can use for setting relief.

[WimWalther]

Last night, before reading any responses, I'd loosed the truss nut 1/5th turn. It's the spokewheel style, situated just below the neck pocket.

Now this thing is starting to sound like a sitar. Here's a sample of me picking the strings in sequence from low to high E. I hit some twice, just to emphasize the effect.

Lyon string buzz.mp3

[WimWalther]

.
(...) Then measure the gap between the bottom of the low E string and the top of the 8th fret.

Do you mean between the string and the top edge of the 8th fret bar, or between the string and the wood fretboard area below the 8th bar?

Sorry, I'm a bit confused over what you mean by a "fret" in this case - both the bars and the adjacent wood patches seem to be called "frets", interchangeably.

Fwiw, I call the metal bars "fret bars" and the wood areas "frets".

[Jimmy Smith]

Sitar effect is bad break angle at the saddles or nut.

[WimWalther]

Sitar effect is bad break angle at the saddles or nut.

Sorry.. "break angle"?

ETA: The saddles are the six adjustable guides down at the bridge, correct? They have adjustment screws for height and intonation?

[Jimmy Smith]

Ok so the slots the strings sit in at the nut or saddles. Facing the playing length of the string, you want the slots to be horizonal. Then going away from the playing segment of string, the string needs to be able to sit in the slot mostly horizonal or at a gentle downward angle. I surmise you're getting buzz at the nut. This is caused when the slot is angled downward too much going from the fretboard to the tuners, or it curves downward.

You're going to have to locate where the buzz is coming from tho if you want to fix it. Not just make random adjustments everywhere. Is it buzzing at the nut, or at the fret?

[sgosnell]

The metal 'bars' are frets. I've never heard them called anything else, and the spaces between them are definitely not frets. To measure action, you measure the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret, the metal 'bar'.

[WimWalther]

Returning to this issue..

I found a capo and was able to measure relief by the Fender method outlined above. Rather than the .006-.010" desired, the relief was very near zero - less than 0.0025" which is my smallest gauge.

So I loosened the truss rod nut another 2/5 turn (total now 3/5), retuned it, and left it to settle overnight.

[John A.]

Returning to this issue..

I found a capo and was able to measure relief by the Fender method outlined above. Rather than the .006-.010" desired, the relief was very near zero - less than 0.0025" which is my smallest gauge.

So I loosened the truss rod nut another 2/5 turn (total now 3/5), retuned it, and left it to settle overnight.

No need to leave it. Truss rod adjustments take effect pretty much immediately.

[WimWalther]

After settling for ~16 hrs, relief now measures ~0.012". This is close, but slightly above that upper limit of 0.010" as listed above.

A slight tightening of the nut, (maybe 1/10th turn) should drop it into the desired range, though I'm not sure it's worth messing with.

I'm still getting some buzz if I hit the low-E hard.. and fretting 1st or 2nd fret has no major effect. Am I just hitting that string too hard - expecting something unrealistic?

Thoughts?

[WimWalther]

No need to leave it. Truss rod adjustments take effect pretty much immediately.

Heh, lots of confused, confusing & contradictory info out here on the webs.

I just recently read that any truss rod adjustments should be left to settle, preferably for a number of hours, before taking stock of any changes to the action.

Not arguing with you, just reflecting on the situation we newbs find ourselves in. ;-)

[WimWalther]

Should I try raising the action at the bridge? It's the typical strat type with 6 individual saddles, each of which has two small Allen screws to set height.

Suppose the first step would be finding what the correct height might be, and how / where to measure it..?