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Curiosity got the better of me at least. I finally sprung for a set of Benson TI GB114s and put them on my Ibanez AF207. I know a lot of people say they can't tell any difference between JS113s and GB114s. But at least on a heavy laminated archtop, I think there's a significant difference for the better.
The 207 is a classic laminated box with a shallow arch (like all the AF archtops from that era that I've seen) and what looks like a thick poly finish. This has been my main gigging archtop since i got it new about 25 years ago. Along with a 0.075 Chrome 7th, I used 12-52 Chromes on it until I broke down and tried a set of TI JS112s on it a few years ago. I loved them, went up to 113s after a year with the same 112s, and have stuck with JS113s since then. But I've been wanting to try GB114s since I first learned about them.
I know the popular belief that these are nothing but heavier gauge JS113s, and I guess that may be right. But they even look a little different to me. Although they feel at least as smooth as JS113s, they look just a little less shiny and are a slightly different color. And they really sound significantly better to me on this guitar. First, it sounds like a better guitar to me - more character to the tone, more wood, and better note definition. There's more depth to the sound and better balanced from low to high both from string to string and in the tone. I just recorded The Very Thought of You with them. For comparison, here's one of the takes of Exactly Like You that I did for the Practical Standards thread months ago. These are the same guitar, same settings, same amp (DV Mark EG250), same speaker (Toob Metro BG), same recording setup. See what you think.
WIth GB114s -
With JS113s -
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04-09-2024 03:03 PM
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Hard to believe it's ceteris paribus except for the strings. If so, the difference is huge. Superb playing!
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Thanks! I can't promise that all the tone pots were set exactly the same. But I rarely touch the tone knobs on my guitars, and the amp's always set with treble and mid at noon and bass at 11 o'clock for archtops. Further, the only other two archtops I have are 16" and 17" carved Eastmans, both with JS113s on them. Neither sounds anything like a relatively cheap laminated Ibanez (even with the excellent Benedetto B7 I put in this one). And my Metro BG sits on my desk with either the EG250 or the SBUS on top - it's my default practice and recording setup.
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I think the GB114s make a laminated top come alive both because of their added mass over JS113s and because of whatever TI does to them that they don't do the JS113s. I know many believe that these are all the same strings with different color silk wraps, but it sure doesn't sound that way to me. If the GBs are actually made for Benson to his specifications, I can only assume they're made to do exactly this for the laminated Ibanez GBs. And maybe it's purely the added mass. When I got my first 175 in 1961, 14-55 was a "light gauge" set and the clothesline that most jazz players used was this heavy or even heavier. I now realize that this may have been a bigger part of the sound of those classic Gibson archtops than we realize.
They're also much fuller acoustically than the JS113s on this guitar. I don't think I'll put them on my "better" guitars, because the carved archies sound great with 113s and so many people have posted that GBs made no difference on their carved guitars. But the Ibanez is reborn with GB114s, and I love it more than ever.
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An age old question. With a large grain of salt : I read.... on a tele forum maybe? Can't find the post... A guy spoke with ti. He said they are the same string as swings, with a little different final qc.
Looking at them side by side with my "tomato plant" magnifier, which is 40x, they clearly appear "smoothed" a bit more, which I suppose may sort of lap the wraps together tighter and lend more of a matte finish. Idk, None of these are technical terms and Im just some bozo, but to the naked eye and up close, I agree with you ..and they sound great as does your playing. Sigh, someday.
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I agree with you - they do not seem to me to be the same strings as the JS113s. They're not even the same color. The GBs are not quite as shiny as the JS113s, and they're a little more grayish than the silvery JSs. I tried to measure the width of the wrapping ribbon and the distance spanned by 30 wraps photographically, but I need to get the strings perfectly horizontal and perfectly parallel to do that. In the shot below, the wrap measures exactly the same. Originally Posted by StoneWaller
The lighting has to be uniform and identical on both to see the color difference. I took one macro shot of the cut end of the GB 0.055" 6th (top) and the 0.053" 6th from the JS113s (bottom), but it's inconclusive. I lit it with the beam from a large Maglite, which didn't work well to show the colors accurately - that yellowish reflection is an artifact.
[EDIT] I just played around with color temperature and saturation. I think the difference in color and shine is clearer in greyscale:
Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 04-09-2024 at 09:04 PM.
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HAHHAHHAH!!! Ain’t we nuts in our anality! And that’s a compliment!
(I’m a toolmaker turned engineer and suffer from the same affliction.)
Yep, the tones are very different and both very attractive…and very nicely played! And on an Ibanez to boot…yeah!!!
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I had a similar discovery this week when a set of TI 11s transformed my Eastman Romeo. String choice really really matters. How I wish that I could handle 13s without pain in the thumb and wrist, never mind 14s…
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$47.50 per pack! nevershouldaplayedthem...
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They do go on sale. I first tried them a few years ago when I got a set of JS112s for $20 (the only size discounted like that in that sale). The big outlets (like Strings & Beyond, Strings by Mail, Just Strings) sell TIs at different prices at different times, and there are a few sales every year on top of the 10% off that’s almost always available from at least one. I recently got 4 sets of JS113s for about $25 each. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
TIs are good for well over a year on my archtops. My AR810CE7 is at about 16 months and still fine with the same set. The 113s on the Ibanez were about 18 mos old when the bug and the opportunity to try Bensons came together - I bought Jazzkritter’s 3 unused GB114 sets from his family.
I was replacing Chromes at least twice a year, so the cost is the same. I will buy more GB114s when I need them. They’re by far the best strings I’ve ever used on my AF207 - they turned it into a better instrument. But I will not put them on my carved Eastmans, which are excellent with 113s. I suspect the heavier GBs are needed to excite the heavy laminated top on the AF to its sweet spot.
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I found what may be a better and closer overall tonal comparison between JS113s and GB114s on the AF207. It's an older track I recorded with JS113s through the same EG250 / Metro combo. The guitar's tone pot is 90+% up, rather than at its midpoint where it was for the 114 track (and where I usually keep it). All 3 EQ knobs were at noon on the EG250 for the 113 track, but bass was between 10:30 an 11 o'clock on the 114 track. After I recorded the tracks for the "blind" test that I posted of year old TIs vs new ones on the AF207 about 18 months ago, I was trying to find the best EQ setting(s) on guitar and amp for plectrum vs FS and for solo vs group playing.
The tone is a bit closer between GB114s and JS113s here. The 113s are less thunky with the treble up, but I still think the 114s have considerably more depth and complexity to their tone than the 113s on this guitar.
For comparison, here's the track from my original post in this thread with the GB114s, guitar tone control at midpoint and amp EQ with bass at 11 o'clock, mid and treble at noon:
I must say that the little Toob Metro BG really does right by a good archtop with the right amp. It's an amazing and very revealing speaker that will stay full and clear while getting surprisingly loud if you give it enough power.
I've enjoyed the SBUS a lot. But the EG250 from DV Mark is in a different league with a real tube in the front end and 125 WRMS into 8 Ohms. Of course, it's twice as expensive ($600 new vs $300), much larger, and lacks the versatility of the SBUS - no cab sims, voicings, balanced out, limiter, master volume, etc. The SBUS breaks up very nicely when gain and volume are set carefully. The EG250 a plain, simple, powerful head that stays clean until long after the paint and paper are off the walls. It has no frills but TMB EQ and very nice reverb. It's big enough to look a bit ungainly when Velcro'ed to the top of the Metro, overhanging both sides. It's also a few pounds heavier than a SBUS and sufficiently larger to require a bigger carry bag if you leave it on the Toob.
FWIW, I also ran these comparisons with my new Quilter OD202 through the Toob and through the BlockDock 12HD, and through my Blu 6, Princeton Reverb, and Twin. The difference between JS113s and GB114s on this guitar is consistent through every amp / speaker combination I've tried. I think the added mass of the 114s is enough to make the heavy laminated top do its job. As I said earlier, I think the 113s are able to get the most out of the thinner carved tops on both of my Eastmans. I do not feel the need or see much potential benefit to trying GB114s on either of them.
I suspect that Benson really did have a lot to do with the development of these. They probaby do for his laminated top models what they do for the AF207.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 04-10-2024 at 12:33 PM.
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The GBs do sound amazing.
The only Ibby I have is the AF55!
May be I'll try them on that! They're not much cheaper than the guitar itself.
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1. If a set of strings costing up to 40$ lasts a year (except the plains), that works out at 3-4$ per month. People tend to go through 5-10$ sets several times a year; I've heard even "every 1-2 weeks". Do the math.
2. I looked at the tensions on the TI site and, gauge-per-gauge, the Bensons and the Swings were the same, but there isn't a "Swing" set ranging from 14-55(?), so maybe the added tension/mass there is livening up the top on that particular guitar. I read somewhere someone suggesting that the GB strings get a bit of extra pampering (polishing) before packaging. IDK.
Anyway, the Bensons are cheap, especially if they make you play/sound better.Last edited by Peter C; 04-10-2024 at 07:23 PM.
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TI’s are great but I don’t see how they might last a year if the guitar is played a lot. I changed the TI flats on my GB10 after six months because their intonation started to get off here and there. Put on a fresh set and it just sounded so much more lively and musical than the old ones… and I didn’t even play them that much because I rotate between several guitars. A year, with frequent practice, rehearsal and gigging thrown in? I’d never make that.
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I really like the Benson 12's (round) over the standard TI's but I've been drifting toward lighter strings lately, and they don't have an 11 set.
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I’ve been getting over a year out of Originally Posted by Oscar67
my TI JS 13s ….
I believe i am just lucky to have a non- corrosive skin chemistry
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i did once try a 14 Benson set as opposed to my usual 13 JS set
they did sound a bit better but
not by much ….
not enough to justify the extra dough
the Bensons cost a fortune at that
time
PS were all quite lucky cp to the cost
of decent Bass strings !
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^6 months would still be pretty good!
(like <10 bucks/month)
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Wow! Lovely playing!
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34 bucks on amazon currently. Not too far off regular js113 prices. Originally Posted by Peter C
^6 months would still be pretty good! (like <10 bucks/month)
Revisiting these after this thread as I have a set laying around. Avoided using the 14/18 in the past as I assumed diminishing returns and all that, but I'm surprised they're quite easy to play, and the wound strings are still more supple than say a chrome or labella hex/steel.
I got field worker hands, and struggle with tight voicing in the upper structures. With the beefer e/b seems I can mash my sausages down with less chance of muting those notes out. Think I'll give these a go for a spell. Cool
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