Pick shape/size

[alltunes]

In the acoustic flat picking world many of us use a larger triangle shape pick (see below) with a thickness of 1.25mm and up. But when playing electric I (and others) almost always go to 351 shape and maybe a little thinner like 1.00mm.

It occurred to me that almost nobody plays electric jazz guitar with the bigger triangle and I couldn't think of a good reason why. In fact many use small teardrop shapes picks.

The big ones are easy to hold onto and easy to find. What am I missing?

[FourOnSix]

Anything larger than a 358 shape feels cumbersome to me. It's like trying to eat with a shovel.

[Cunamara]

And the 358 is a tiny pick. It is also the pick I keep going back to. I consider the Jazz III to be on the large side; I use it as a template to cut down 351 or 347 shaped picks.

It's interesting how people experience this differently. I find large picks much harder to hold onto and control. With a small pick, I feel the edge between my fingers and I always know which way the pick is oriented. With a larger pick, I don't get that feedback and it is harder to keep the point in the right direction to engage the strings properly.

For other people, very small picks are much more difficult to play with. It's a good thing there are lots of choices! I wonder if grip style is a factor; I tend to hold a pick very lightly, generating most of the motion from my wrist and the thumb/finger. I really only use the elbow to position over which string I want to play, even when strumming. I let the pick move between my fingers against the string, and I generally hate picks that bend so I almost never use anything thinner than 1.5 mm.

[ccroft]

I've never used anything other than a Fender 358 Medium. (don't know how many millimetres thick that is). I must be a weirdo since I've never given anything else a serious go. When I was working I bought them by the gross.

I use these because I found out over a half century ago a player I admired very much used them.

Somewhere along the line other players I got to know asked why I used such a tiny thing. I considered that maybe I should use something bigger since most everyone else seemed to.

But when I look at the way I hold the dang thing I see that with my grip a larger pick is just wasted material. The gripping area between my finger and thumb is pretty much exactly the size of a 358. Anything bigger is just flapping in the wind, creating drag and slowing me down. And increases my carbon footprint :)

I guess Cuna and me are birds of a feather. His explanation makes total sense.

[AllanAllen]

I use a regular fever heavy. Tried a jazz iii but my ears and wife agree the fender is louder and fuller.

I go with the heavy because the guitar store has it in white pearloid.

[princeplanet]

I like stubbies, 2 or 3mm. I'm getting bored with the smooth attack, so am looking at alternative materials, something with more "grainy" friction, like stone, bone or wood maybe. Any suggestions?

[Jimmy Mack]

Excellent thread, I was going to create one similar, but now don't have to...being busy now....More on this later.
Thanks alltunes

[frabarmus]

Another 358-only guy here...
I started out with 351 as a beginner but after 10 or so years, when I started playing Jazz, that is, I switched to 358 as they were calling it "the jazz- pick" at the music store I went to and never looked back. Since they were not that easy to find for quite a long period (in my area) I also used Jazz IIIs from time to time. 358 feels more comfortable, sounds great and makes me play better. Period. I use it in different thicknesses and of different makes (basically any I can get my hands on), depending on which guitar/string set/string gauge etc.
(I remember discussing this in even greater detail, posting pictures of some of my 358s etc. in a similar thread: "Plectrums for Jazz", I think it was called).

[frabarmus]

@Alltunes&Jimmy Mack

You may also find this thread interesting...

Plectrums for Jazz

[Jimmy Mack]

@Alltunes&Jimmy Mack

You may also find this thread interesting...

Plectrums for Jazz

I find it all interesting frabermus. I am humbled by the amount of diligence and care some people put into their tone and their passion.

My search for a plectrum may or may not be much simpler.

I like so many others, used to use the very common 351 shaped Fender. Thickness aside, I just used them and got on with it. Until I found the 358 shape/size and found greater ease at speed and just an intimate feel for plucking those strings. Great.

So, a couple of years back, I had an accident at work, removing old and stubborn windows. Not the glass, but an aluminum frame came down quickly (fast) and pinched my right hand forefinger. It took off the surface layer of skin where I hold my pick. Not enough damage for stitches, the skin grew back, but I had a loss of feeling there.

I didn't worry because I was studying classical guitar then, and didn't use a pick. When I went back to electric guitar, I felt the loss.
I could no longer hold a 358 pick without it sliding around between my thumb and forefinger, even dropping it occasionally.
351 picks were too much material to handle and 358's were too flighty.

I remembered that in the 70's or 80's, my favorite pick of all was a Gibson heart shaped black pick - smaller than a 351, and the heart shape gave my fingers a geography to facilitate my grip. Well....they don't make those for many years now. I found one in my stash, and ....glory be...... it was the pick of my dreams.

Realizing this, I wanted a pick like it. Someone online recommended the Ibanez Paul Gilbert picks. I ordered 6 to try. (1mm.) They are perfect!!!! and now unavailable :-(

I ordered the next best thing, Ibanez Hazuki picks, but they have "sandpaper" coating to facilitate your grip..oh no! Same shape as the Paul Gilberts and the Gibson "hearty shape" picks. Plus the pointy end helps with speed (wow) and accuracy.
I then sanded off the "sandpaper" coating and got them to a more polished feel, but not totally smooth. The sandpaper finish didn't allow movement of the pick.

The result IS: the right weight, shape for leverage, and grippy enough but still allowing the pick to move between my fingers while playing lines, runs, or chording

I didn't realize before this that the pick needs to move a tiny bit between the thumb and forefinger. Maybe not everyone's experience, but I found out by EXPERIENCE, that picks are extremely important and a very personal extension of the fingers, and everything else.

[frabarmus]

You can still find heart shaped picks.

heart shaped guitar picks - Google Search

These look interesting...

Dragon's Heart Guitar Picks - The Best Guitar Picks Available

Selection of Heart Shaped Guitar Picks | Timber Tones

[Herbie]

I use heavy 358 with jazz guitars (flat wounds) and heavy 351 with rock etc. guitars (round wounds).

I once recorded jazz bits with different picks. The differences were surprisingly big. 358 gave me the warmest classic jazz sound. Others were brighter or much brighter.

And brand wise: D’Andrea rules!

[ruger9]

I use whatever "number" the standard triangular-teardrop pick is. Always heavy. I do have many different materials, I find them to be like tiny tone controls (a perspective shared by Bryan Sutton, great flat picker!)

I've tried the small jazz picks, too small. The XL jazz picks are better, but at that point I just use the regular pick. I have Ultex, Tortex, Gator, Bluechip, V-Pick, Red Bear... most of the time I just use a 2.0 Ultex. But the 1.5mm V-Picks are very cool...

[Skip Ellis]

I've been using my thumb a lot lately since I got my GB10 with flats. Still use a thumbpick for Chet stuff and a 358 heavy or extra heavy for anything I need a pick on - sometimes a 358 and a national fingerpick on my middle finger ala James Burton.

[frabarmus]

I've been using my thumb a lot lately since I got my GB10 with flats. Still use a thumbpick for Chet stuff and a 358 heavy or extra heavy for anything I need a pick on - sometimes a 358 and a national fingerpick on my middle finger ala James Burton.

Jim Mullen uses (exclusively) his thumb with round wounds, which sounds quite nice, it brightens a little bit the tone while keeping it very jazzy, though I guess, it must be a bit rougher on the thumb.

I definitely agree with Ruger 9 that whatever we use for picking, functions as an extra tone-controller...

[JazzerEU]

In my early days as a professional in my first year of high school, I started out using the thick dunlop purple shell picks. When I started digging into what my favorite guitarist used, I switched to Fender heavy picks during my second year of high school. When I got to study with my favorite guitarist at university, I basically used whatever he used. After university, I settled on Wegen Bluegrass 1.0mm picks until I switched to Dunlop Tortex 1.14mm picks during my last year as a professional musician. Now retired, I currently use Fender heavy picks or a pack of 150 generic fender heavy like picks I bought off Amazon for about 14 dollars. I don't play everyday, and I lose picks quite often, more than I did prior to my retirement, so losing these fender heavy knockoffs isn't a big blow to my wallet or psyche.

[Spook410]

Prefer large picks. Saves wear and tear on my finger joints.

Dull plastic gives a dull sound. Don't care for cheap and soft which is pretty much everything Fender offers.

Thin sounds thin. At least 2mm for me.

Materials.. you have to try several and good materials can be expensive. Blue chip picks are expensive. So is the stuff they are made of. Casein is another good material but expensive and sometimes hard to find in exactly the size and thickness you want (Honey Picks makes a large triangle in 2mm and 3mm.. good picks). My favorite inexpensive pick is the Jim Dunlop 3mm Americana. Offers solid harmonic content without being overly bright.

For acoustic flat tops, I want something pretty bright and use thick acrylic picks like those from Gravity Picks.

[princeplanet]

...
Materials.. you have to try several and good materials can be expensive. ....

My favourite material ever (by far) was a bakelite button, but it only lasted a week before it totally gone worn out! There was something about the grainy friction that is what I've been after forever, but alas was too good to be true...

Can anyone thing of another material I should try (bone, stone, wood)?

[alt.kafka]

My favourite material ever (by far) was a bakelite button, but it only lasted a week before it totally gone worn out! There was something about the grainy friction that is what I've been after forever, but alas was too good to be true...

Can anyone thing of another material I should try (bone, stone, wood)?

Stone picks are crazy smooth. You'd think they'd feel hard, but it's the opposite. I don't really like them because they tend to be a bit thick. Same thing with bone picks. I tried every pick on the planet, and I have a collection that looks like I'm a door-to-door guitar pick salesman. I eventually started using really heavy picks, and then eventually gave up using a pick altogether. Now, if I use a pick at all, it'll be a thumbpick.

[P.J.]

I used to be really particular about what pick I could or could not use. Now I use anything that isn't too thin or too large. I love that picks can drastically change your sound without costing much at all.

[drbhrb]

Found the D’Andrea pro plec 351 like 15 years ago and have never liked anything else since