Gibson L4 CES demo and discussion

**jzucker** · 03-25-2024, 11:20 AM

in case you missed it...

**PDeville** · 03-25-2024, 11:36 AM

It is somewhat similar to an Es-175 in the lower notes, but more like an L-5 than an ES175, to me.
I notice it mostly on high the e-string. When you play those higher notes with a little extra force,
I hear the brightness of an acoustic instrument. Which is exactly what I would expect to hear from
a spruce/maple guitar like yours. But the high notes sound full sometimes as well.
I think the instrument responds nicely to your picking dynamics.
Traditional 1960s, L5 CES through a Fender sound.

If I remember one of your earlier message topics, you are playing through an Line 6 HX-Stomp? Is that right? If so,
are you recording that "direct" or through a mic'd amp?

PD

**jzucker** · 03-25-2024, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by PDeville

It is somewhat similar to an Es-175 in the lower notes, but more like an L-5 than an ES175, to me.
I notice it mostly on high the e-string. When you play those higher notes with a little extra force,
I hear the brightness of an acoustic instrument. Which is exactly what I would expect to hear from
a spruce/maple guitar like yours. But the high notes sound full sometimes as well.
I think the instrument responds nicely to your picking dynamics.
Traditional 1960s, L5 CES through a Fender sound.

If I remember one of your earlier message topics, you are playing through an Line 6 HX-Stomp? Is that right? If so,
are you recording that "direct" or through a mic'd amp?

PD

Thanks. I agree with all your assessments. This was the HX-Stomp in conjunction with mic'ing the cab. I had to mix 50% of mic'd cab on the line6 to get a pleasing recorded tone.

About a month after this, I upgraded to a Fractal FM3. It's got a slightly more realistic fender sound, much more realistic spring reverb and I no longer have to mic the cab.

**skiboyny** · 03-25-2024, 02:26 PM

The L4 has a nice note boom as compared to the more compressed 175. Great sounding video.

**jzucker** · 03-25-2024, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by skiboyny

The L4 has a nice note boom as compared to the more compressed 175. Great sounding video.

Thanks, i think the mids are fuzzy in the plywood top guitars too...

**skiboyny** · 03-25-2024, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Thanks, i think the mids are fuzzy in the plywood top guitars too...

To my ears mids are not a strong point for Gibsons. You want some mids play your GB10.

**jumpnblues** · 03-25-2024, 05:02 PM

Beautiful playing. Wish I was that far along.

**PDeville** · 03-25-2024, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Thanks. I agree with all your assessments. This was the HX-Stomp in conjunction with mic'ing the cab. I had to mix 50% of mic'd cab on the line6 to get a pleasing recorded tone.

About a month after this, I upgraded to a Fractal FM3. It's got a slightly more realistic fender sound, much more realistic spring reverb and I no longer have to mic the cab.

What are your vol/tone levels on the guitar?
Thanks
PD

**jzucker** · 03-25-2024, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by PDeville

What are your vol/tone levels on the guitar?
Thanks
PD

tone is probably 6 or 7, volume 8 or 9. I don't like the tone when the volume is dimed

**Bluedawg** · 03-25-2024, 06:20 PM

I encountered my first L4CES in 1992. It was an '88 with a warped neck at Chuck Levins in Maryland.

They offered to let me have it for a great price. I asked them to try and straighten the neck and it came out perfect, so I bought it.

I still have it and the neck has stayed straight and only needed a little tweaking once.

They are great sounding guitars ... just enough difference from a 175 or an L5 to make them worth looking into, especially if you like the 16-inch size better than a 17-inch or bigger.

I had a little Peavey Classic 20 that sounded great with my L4-CES, but I sold it. Wish I had kept that amp.

**Bluedawg** · 03-25-2024, 06:32 PM

Comparing an ES 175 and an L4 CES side by side really gives you an idea of what a solid spruce top does for the guitar IMHO.

Aside from the spruce top, they are almost the same dimensions and construction. My L4 seems to be little bit deeper than my 175.

**omphalopsychos** · 03-25-2024, 06:42 PM

I think the best comparison I ever saw of an L4CES and ES175 was this one from floatingpickup.

**Bluedawg** · 03-25-2024, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

I think the best comparison I ever saw of an L4CES and ES175 was this one from floatingpickup.

Nice video

And that's a '59 175 ... hopefully still with its PAF pickups

That matches my experience between the two guitars ... so I usually prefer the L4 tones

That said, a good 175 is a treasure. Put on some good strings and tweak the tones controls ... then add some reverb, delay, etc and you may decide you prefer the sound of your 175 ... like that Pat Metheny guy. Seems to have worked for him.

IIRC there are some current jazz guitarists who are gigging with some success on L4 CES guitars.

The L4 has been around for a long time, but the CES version seems have first appeared in any quantities in the late 80s. Well after jazz guitar's heyday of the 50s and 60s.

**floatingpickup** · 03-25-2024, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

Nice video

And that's a '59 175 ... hopefully still with its PAF pickups

That matches my experience between the two guitars ... so I usually prefer the L4 tones

That said, a good 175 is a treasure. Put on some good strings and tweak the tones controls ... then add some reverb, delay, etc and you may decide you prefer the sound of your 175 ... like that Pat Metheny guy. Seems to have worked for him.

IIRC there are some current jazz guitarists who are gigging with some success on L4 CES guitars.

The L4 has been around for a long time, but the CES version seems have first appeared in any quantities in the late 80s. Well after jazz guitar's heyday of the 50s and 60s.

Yes, my ‘59 (the one in the video) still has its original paf’s. I still have it, but the L4CES is long gone.
Keith

**GuyBoden** · 03-26-2024, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

The L4 has been around for a long time, but the CES version seems have first appeared in any quantities in the late 80s. Well after jazz guitar's heyday of the 50s and 60s.

Nice video and playing, Jack.

Yes, the early L4's guitars were acoustic.

I have an acoustic 1949 L4c with a McCarty type pickguard. (Cutaway).

A very different sound to the later L4 CES with built in HB's.

The L4 CES has more of that classic Jazz guitar sound, where the L4c has a more acoustic sound with a floating pickup installed.

**AKA** · 03-26-2024, 08:06 PM

Rich tone and tasty playing!

AKA

**jzucker** · 03-26-2024, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by AKA

Rich tone and tasty playing!

AKA

Thanks

**Archie** · 03-26-2024, 08:21 PM

Guitar sounds great, playing is great, video quality is great, video concept is great.

5 out of 5 'would recommend'.

I always felt the neck pup position was the biggest part of the darker, thicker and deeper tone to the 175 style. The top does matter but I don’t think as much as the pup position.

P.s You and Rick Beato sound almost exactly alike when talking.

**Max405** · 03-26-2024, 10:31 PM

Yes Jack, the L4 sounds great. But you sound amazing.
You have such an incredible command of the fretboard. Great stuff.
The L4 sounds amazing when you play it.
Dynamite!
Joe D

**jzucker** · 03-27-2024, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Yes Jack, the L4 sounds great. But you sound amazing.
You have such an incredible command of the fretboard. Great stuff.
The L4 sounds amazing when you play it.
Dynamite!
Joe D

thanks Joe. It's nice to hear from you. Hope you're well.

**Max405** · 03-27-2024, 05:56 PM

I’m great bro.
198 lbs today. Run every morning.
I’m getting young like you!
Still can’t play as good though!
JD

**jzucker** · 03-27-2024, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

I’m great bro.
198 lbs today. Run every morning.
I’m getting young like you!
Still can’t play as good though!
JD

Congrats Joe. I have a torn meniscus so I have to watch the running. I try to run 2 miles, 3x a week. Any more than that and I get a lot of pain.

We all bring something to the table in terms of playing. I always enjoy listening to you.

**Archie** · 03-27-2024, 07:37 PM

One of my all time fav tones was Rich Severson on his L4CES.

I spent a long time trying to achieve his tone on 'Sugar'. I went on to learn his arrangement (or approximate it) and came closest to achieving it, with my Guild X700.

In the end I also learnt he uses quite a few box (peddles) of tricks, to get his tone and he has a light touch which allows him to make almost any guitar sound very similar.

I suppose your theory stands up regarding solid tops, since the X700 has a solid top and that is the closest I think I got, to achieving the sound Rich gets on his L4CES.