Opening up the treble in lower volumes

[Epistrophy]

Hello,

Haven’t posted here recently that much. Anyway here’s my latest experiment. I noticed that my single note lines were much more fluent while playing amplified with low volume. Usually people tell to cut some of the treble from the amp while playing jazz. My Deluxe Reverb really sounded nice when I had the treble at 10 and tone at 10 when playing my 175. This was done in practicing volumes, with volume being somewhere around 2 on my amp. Dark tone of the flatwounds really can sound too dark and muffled when it comes to a 175 like guitars that have humbuckers. I played with an extra heavy celluloid pick and with a relatively soft. I managed to get a nice tone out of my headphones amp, a VOX clean headphone amp. It has a nice clarity. I’m also getting a relatively nice sounds when plugging my guitar into an audio interface and playing through GarageBand. But with my Deluxe reverb I couldn’t get a nice tone with lower volumes when I had my treble halfway through and bass somewhere around 5 or 6. I don’t know how it works with smaller amps but I believe boosting the treble from the amp will do it when playing with lower volumes when trying to get an electric sound out of the guitar. With my 175 I had difficulties finding a good sound with low volumes. The sound was muffled, especially with flatwounds. Now I know what to do in order to get a decent sound when in practice situation.

[Epistrophy]

I prefer something like pyramid flats 13-52. And tone all the way up. Not light strings and tone rolled off.

[Oscar67]

The transparency of a solid-state amp like a JC can help to sound nice at low volumes. With tube amps it can be somewhat harder, depending on the guitar and the player. I've found that using the middle position on a 2-pickup guitar can be the ticket at low volumes, especially with a Gibson-like control layout of 2 volumes and 2 tones.

[Epistrophy]

Solid states are nice. Not my cup of tea though. I’m more into tube amps, but yes you are right. They can sound more transparent. I use the single PU 175 (165). I only have a neck PU.

[Cunamara]

Everbody's notion of a "nice" tone is different. I definitely don't like a tone as bright as you evidently do, as I would find those settings to sound like an icepick. With typical Fender black face or a silver face amp, I find the tone too bright if the treble knob is set above about 2. I prefer a flatter response from the amplifier; the bass is rarely ever set above about 2 either. Then I use the knobs on the guitar to fine tune my tone. I prefer to have the volume up a little bit on the amp and roll the volume down to 4-5 on the guitar, which knocks off the spiky high end (that most guitars have to my ears); then the tone knob is used as seasoning. Vive la difference!

For what it's worth, I just saw Peter Bernstein, Larry Goldings and Bill Stewart over the weekend with their organ trio. I suspect the settings that Pete uses on his amp are much closer to yours than mine. He has a brilliant, clear sound that in particular works really well in that setting. He has made me brighten up my sound quite a bit.

[DawgBone]

That's how I run my Twin, or any other blackface amp, pretty much every time. Vol 10 Treble 10. If it's too trebly the guitar's tone control can make it right. If it's too loud your guitar's volume control can make it right. You're never left without enough treble on tap or volume to get above the band so the finer points of your playing can be heard.

[Epistrophy]

Yes, by the way my amp is actually a TAD clone of a Fender blackface Deluxe Reverb (handwired), more like the real thing, it’s not the reissue version. Reissues are great though. And so are Tonemasters. Silverfaces have less clarity and they sound warmer. But I like the brighter and crispier blackfaces.

I don’t have this type of issue with roundwounds. I can hear them clearly but with flats it’s sometimes hard to get note separation in my experience, especially at lower volumes. I sounded always very dull, I didn’t know how to sound more electric in lower volumes. I had tone at 10 but still lacked the note separation in practice volumes (with flats). I had that issue for years. I also like a warm tone. But clear enough to be heard.

Bernstein uses a floating pickup guitar. I find Bernstein’s sound to be quite warm. I think Scofield is what I call bright. Or Bill Frisell.

[bluejaybill]

In my experience a Deluxe Reverb is too loud for quiet home playing. Tube amps come alive at a certain knob setting. On my '67 BF Deluxe Reverb, that is at least 3.5 on the volume dial. And that's pretty loud. It's also pretty bright, even with my bright cap clipped. But of course everyone's idea of what is bright and what isn't is different. The amp sounds glorious for blues and rock and is plenty loud enough to gig with, which I did for many years.

My Fat Jimmy amp is a Fender variant that combines aspects of the earlier eras of brown and tweed, not sure exactly how. That amp is lower wattage and warmer sounding, a bit better for jazz IMHO.

When I want to play really quietly I use a DV Mark Little Jazz, that can still sound good even very quiet.

BTW I take a different tack with the tone controls , I start with them just slightly opened up, like 2, and then raise them slightly if needed. I read somewhere that this gives the best midrange on a BF amp, which otherwise are somewhat "scooped". But it's still pretty bright!

[sgosnell]

With a Fender tone stack, with no mid knob, flat is at zero for treble and bass. I tend to leave both in that vicinity, increasing one or the other just a little if necessary. Turning both to 10 scoops the mids out too much for my taste. Even turning them up a little is too much scoop. But tastes vary, and everyone is free to turn the knobs as much as desired, they easily turn back for someone else.

[Spook410]

Tone controls on almost all amps are, at best, mediocre. Fortunately, any decent EQ pedal will give you what you want. Probably a boost in the high mids or even higher if you're looking for extra crispy with maybe a cut in the lower mids to keep the mud out. IMHO, getting some of those acoustic tones from your 175 involves round wound strings in a .012 set and the availability of different settings for say 200hz, 600hz, 1800hz, and 3.5khz (or so.. for a top.. your speaker tops out a 5khz). Cutting and boosting as needed. Overall volume matters as louder will more reflect the acoustics of the space you're in and what instruments are in the mix. All the more reason to have real EQ available.

Expect it to change based on venue and your mood. What you like today may not be what you like tomorrow so it's nice having good tools. Of course, it's all extremely subjective. Many here like muddy and just dial back the trebles until it's as dull as a thud in a snowstorm.

[Oscar67]

What you like today may not be what you like tomorrow so it's nice having good tools. Of course, it's all extremely subjective.

Very true and the bane of my existence. That’s why I need a bunch of different guitars and amps to stay inspired on any given day. But I’m learning to zoom in on what really suits me and sure enough what I need isn’t what I want. I’ve started to thin out the herd, no seller’s remorse so far.