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Hello all,
I've had a search on the forum & there are several threads on what strings people prefer for archtops, but none that quite answer the question I have (I think). In particular, the archtops in these threads are often (primarily) amplified.
I've got an Eastman AR810ces. This is a non-laminate archtop (spruce top, maple sides and back) with a floating (not an inset) pickup. When I practice I generally don't plug it in, so I'm interested in maintaining a nice acoustic sound.
I currently have Thomastik jazz swing 13-53 guage strings on it.
However, I have been having some issues with my hands recently & so have been mostly practicing with a stratocaster-type guitar with fairly light strings (10s maybe?) This is easier on the hands & it is quite fun to be able to play faster with such ease.
Does anybody have opinions on what effect putting lighter strings (12s or even lighter) will have on the acoustic sound of an instrument like mine? I know that heavier strings will "drive" the top more, but I'm not sure how big a difference I should expect.
I've always put 13s on this instrument (out of principle, more or less) and it's the only non-laminate archtop I've ever owned. I know that I could (should?) just restring the thing and find out, but I'm hesitant to put all the effort into setting it all up to find that I regret it.
Thanks!
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03-20-2024 05:08 PM
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12's will work just fine and even 11's are acceptable, but are less than optimal.
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If you have hand issues and lighter strings allows you to play,seems like a no brainer regardless of how it sounds.I'm playing 55 years and i keep going to lighter strings and lower action.Is it optimal in sound,no but it is more than good enough and allows me to keep doing what i love.
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Physical constraints are just that: physical constraints. If your health and well being require a modification to your setup that results in a sacrifice in tone/volume, so be it. Maybe you'll find the setup changing your approach and you come to terms with it.
I've had to play 11 gauge strings on my jazz guitars lately because I've been playing with two groups back to back (jazz/funk). So I've been having to use 11s on jazz sets. It's not my ideal but it has also opened up some doors to incorporating new ideas into my jazz playing.
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I have joint problems and have been using 11's with nice results. In fact, I think they sound more "acoustic-y." I studied Clarinet and Sax with a nationally renowned reed pedagogue. People like Maynard would contact him for recommendations for sax students he had when MF needed a new young player. (Not me, far from it.) He once said to me: "M, there's nothing wrong with using a softer reed. It may not be macho, but you can get a much more broad range of tones. But to get that tone, you need to learn to CONTROL it, which is even harder than playing on a macho thick reed and just blowing your brains out."
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Unless you're slamming out unamplified chords in a big band, there's not that much difference. But you do have to lighten up the deathgrip on the neck or you'll be out of tune, and you have to pick with some finesse to get the best out of the strings.
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I put Thomastik Plectrum 11's on a 1944 L7, but I play mostly fingerstyle and have a light touch. The strings are designed for acoustics, which I assume generally means flattops. I have a reissue DeArmond floater on the L7, but like you, I mostly play it acoustically. I think this is an unusual choice, but it works for me. The strings have a low tension and just feel right (to me).
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I agree that dropping from 13's to 12's will make little difference in tone. FWIW, I've gone back and forth between the two on my archtop (laminated, set pickup, so limited applicability to this discussion), which I play unplugged a lot. I find the biggest difference is in feel, especially when picking hard and when trying to play fast. The tone differences are minimal. On my (flattop) acoustic, I've found zero difference in sound between the two and don't think 13's offer any advantage. Another variable in all this is that not all string company gauges are alike. E.g., Thonastik-Infelds generally have the tension of strings one gauge lower (e.g., their 13's feel like D'Addario's 12's).
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I've been alternating between TI 11s & 12s. When using 11's I replace the E with a 12 and the B with a 16. Also, if you think the tone/volume needs adjusting, try a different pick with the lower gauge strings - imo - it can make a difference.
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I think Jim Hall used 11s. You'll be just fine.
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My ears tell me that 11s don’t drive the guitar’s top like 12s do. Not even close. Much bigger difference than going back from 13s to 12s IMHO. The acoustic, unamplified tone suffers most and the plain strings may start sounding plinky, especially when using a pick. Plugged in, the difference gets smaller, depending on the guitar. Taking my old L7 as an example: with 13s it sounds incredible no matter how hard I strum, with 12s I have to ease off a little on the plain strings and with 11s everything sounds thin and brittle.
Semi’s respond better to lighter strings than big jazzboxes. Personally I’d look into a semi like a 335 with 11s and use that as a workhorse. You can then still enjoy your Eastman with 13s or 12s.
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I use 11 or 12 and switch between depending on what I'm focusing on. For me, I adjust the action and sometimes relief accordingly and my hands (I play fingerstyle) take a "break in" period before my touch learns the optimum finger relationship. It changes almost imperceptibly but once I, say, switch from 12 to 11, the attack and fingers change too and 12 feels almost cumbersome.
I'll say it changes the lines and phrases for me to, so give it a try. You might find a part of yourself you never knew. Give it a couple of months to decide, you can always go back.
I find that if I lower the action even a tiny amount, it can feel like going down a gauge sometimes. Play around. Have fun!
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Sage advice, as always.
Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Thank you to all who have responded.
It sounds like the consensus is that going from 13s to 12s will make relatively little difference whereas going down to 11s may be more noticeable.
I think I'll go ahead and try 12s and see how it feels & sounds.
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I have 12s on my Loar atm I think - sounds good.
Also consider the overall tension of the set. Not all sets are created equal. For example D’addarios nickel bronzes feel quite a bit lighter than their equivalent mainline phosphor bronze sets, TI bebops are lighter tension than D’addario roundwounds by E string guage and so on.
In my experience it’s not the gauge of the E and B that make a set feel heavy, but usually the wound strings.
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True, on a properly set-up guitar (where the action under the 2 top strings will be so low that a bit more tension is hardly noticeable). The lower strings are the ones that can become hard to hold down well enough that they don't buzz, esp. when playing bar chords. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Yes, as several people have pointed out, the TI strings feel lighter than regular acoustic strings up of an equivalent gauge. TI strings are expensive, but I quite like how they feel. Also, they seem to last forever & I prefer how they sound after they've aged a little. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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They wouldn’t be my first choice for heavy pure acoustic playing but for unplugged home practice they sound good. They work well with a floating pickup too. Originally Posted by bobheff
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