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So I've been playing guitar for a long time now, and am always searching for the best tone (aren't we all). I've used tube amps, solid state amps, different pickups etc. But I have recently found my ideal sound - by going direct to the computer through an interface, then using some reaper plugins (the tukan plugins to be specific).
Here's an example
Even the slight overdrive breakup I haven't heard in any pedal I've tried (although I'm not a huge pedal geek so I might be missing something). But there's just a warmth to the sound that I haven't heard anywhere else. It's hard to explain, and might not even come through in the recording - but it's like I definitely feel it when playing.
It would be nice of course to get this sound through and actual amp or speaker that can be taken out of the apartment. For the record amps that I have owned - An old polytone, a Henriksen, a Blues Junior, a Princeton, and a roland micro cube (which sounds pretty good tbh). Those are the amps I'm most familiar with. But since the roland micro cube is nice and portable for taking to small gigs, ideally there's something I can put on front of it to get a better tone. I'm also open to something like the later model henriken's but I'm not sure about dropping a grand unless it really does sound amazing.
Are any of those amp pedals worth looking at? Or any other pedals that I should be aware of?
It's just odd that going direct into the computer these days sounds better than all of the guitar specific gear I have. Surely I'm missing something.
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03-16-2024 03:34 AM
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There are 100's of low-gain overdrive pedals out there and each week a new one comes along - or an old one gets hyped up again - so your best bet would be looking in that direction. Depending on where you live you might find a store that carries more than just one or two.
On this forum the pedals that emulate the overdrive characteristics of vintage Gibson amps are quite popular and you can find several informative threads dealing with these.
I sometimes use a low-gain pedal by J.Rocket Audio Designs in front of my BUD and/or Evans amp with good results. Julian Lage uses an ancient Tweed Champ on stage (he has the funds...) for his gritty tone.
Have you checked out some of the small-ish/tweedy Boutique amps by Toneking, Victoria, Clark, etc. ?
It will be challenging to replicate the processed sound of your guitar through your desktop speakers with "normal" analog gear, it's def. one of these rabbit holes .....
You play a good guitar and seem to have all the necessary skills in your fingers and ears so just keep working on your tone with outboard gear and you'll get there (and beyond) eventually.
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Nice playing! Maybe a power soak on the amp would give you that sort of sound. Distortion is most prevalent to my ears. What we perceive as players usually doesn't come through a recording as we might think.
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Nice playing,
Your audience (this time people visiting this thread) is not able to hear what it sounds like in your room. The sound I hear is your recording reproduced by my studio monitors, that most likely are different than yours, but probably close enough for me to get an idea. Which is the whole point of a hi-fi recording; it's supposed to sound similar in my headphones, in my car, on the radio etc.
Historically, the purpose of a recording was to make a close representation of the original source of sound, for example an acoustic instrument. In the beginning this was very difficult because of primitive microphones and funnel gramophones. Audio techs soon discovered studio reverb and later applied advanced EQ-techniques and stereo effects that made the sound pleasant when played back on conversation volume using hi-fi speakers. If you had never heard a live performance, hi-fi recordings would be your only reference...and that's the problem, right there;
For decades, we have gradually replaced our source of reference from live music to recorded music. People are seldom trying to replicate a live source in a recording, on the contrary people are now trying to replicate the sound of a hi-fi recording on their live rigs. We've been using reverb and primitive TMB tonestacks for decades, but just recently ventured into stereo setups and studio reverb pedals etc.
It's easy to get lost in studio tone shaping and forget the fundamental differences between live tone (high volume, natural stereo, natural reverb, strong mids, artifacts) and hi-fi-tone (low volume, artificial stereo, reverb effect, scooped mids, noise supression). A digital modeler without a regular speaker jack being the prime example of gear made to sound "good" in a studio environment.
One could argue that a home player /youtuber doesn't need a regular amp. One could also argue that guitar players benefit from practicing on a real amp to get a good reference of what the source audio is supposed to sound like, hence a better understanding of guitar tone and how to dial in an amp.
The tone chase could be about replicating the sound of a recording, or it could be about replicating the acoustic sound of an amplified archtop, or it could be about making the treble strings sound fatter or just about anything, but fact remains;
The development of guitar amps goes hand in hand with the development of rock, that is an antithesis of Jazz. Many classic jazz guitar recordings were produced by plugging the guitar direct to the mixer table, bypassing the guitar amp altogether because of the difficulties involved. I started a thread a couple of years ago, frustrated at silly preamps, arguing for the benefits of bypassing the preamp. I got plenty of replies and good advice. Since then I have stopped practicing on digital modelers and I avoid headphones. I practice plugged into my guitar amps and make sure they got the right speakers for the job.
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I think the dynamic range is too even, even the range of the distortion seems to be within a limited range. As someone who records for a living, this is a good thing when recording - we try to limit the dynamic range to fit within the recording "window" - so this may be why you like it?
But real amps, at least without pedals or some processing, don't really sound like this to me. But hey, that's not to say that's a bad thing, especially if you're playing with others! However, if I were were you, for solo playing, I'd want more dynamics, a greater response range from a pure clean sound with a soft touch, to an edgier verge-of breakup tone when you dig in with corresponding volume increase.
Mind you, going by listening on a computer is impossible to judge!
, so let me admit to a little expectation bias here, as I've also found modellers to behave in a similar way. I've yet to recreate the sound of a tele through a Princeton dimed for a hint of breakup at loud passages using any modeller I've tried, but will admit that some of them probably fit in a mix better than the real thing... until of course you mess with processing a well miced up amp, then all bets are off! 
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I'd have to agree with some of your analysis. The tone he seems to be after reminds me of an old Gibson amp, because several of those circuits don't really offer a 100 percent clean sound. GA-2RVT, maybe the Les Paul amp......You brought up J Rockett.....the Blue Note into a warm, clean tube amp might also get him in the ball park. I think a vintage Gibson or replica circuit will get him closest to what he sounded like here though.
Originally Posted by gitman
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Nice playing.
I have owned or currently own many of the amps you mentioned. If I understand your description correctly, you want to hear a little bit of character from the amp instead of a hi-fi reproduction in low volumes. I'd recommend trying out the 68 Custom Fender Vibro-Champ for that type of sound. They seem to be widely available in music stores so it should be easy to test one out.
I also agree that Micro-cubes (older models) were good at that. There is nothing hi-fi about the micro-cube amps, lol. But very musical.
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Based on things I've heard from other members here, I wonder about trying the Joyo American pedal in front of a clean amp. It's a cheap clone of a more expensive pedal, I can't remember exactly what. Inexpensive enough that it's a low risk trial.
And it might take some volume to get there, too, so that the amp is contributing to it as well.
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Nice playing for sure! For me, less is more. The Monoprice 5W and 15W combos are great value and will probably get you what you want (or very, very close) in a simple, portable package. They both sound great (6V6 powered), and each has a sweet spot around the onset of audible distortion (at higher volume for the 15W).
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Nice playing! I'm not sure I consider this a very unique tone though. Sounds like a tele into a mostly clean tube amp. I'm sure there are a million equally valid ways to achieve this tone.
IMO, a tele plugged into a princeton with bass and treble knobs set and volume at ~4 will get this sound live. If you want a bit of harmonic saturation without changing your tone, my favorite pedal for that is the fairfield circuity barbershop. But you already mentioned that you had a princeton and it's not cutting it for you.
I guess what I'm wondering is it just that you have a preference for a direct sound rather than a microphone on an amp? When you say that nothing sounds better than going direct, do you actually mean that the final recording sounds better going direct compared to putting a mic on an amp? If that's the case then maybe you just have a preference for direct recording rather than a mic. But that's totally different from the sound in the room. It's possible I misunderstood you in case you mean that you actually prefer the sound of a guitar into an interface into a digital, mastering solution through your computer speakers over an actual amplifier. If that's what you're saying and you actually prefer that over the sound of a tube amp with a proper 10 or 12 inch driver then it feels like you have a pretty unique point of view. I guess it's possible that computer speakers sound better to you than a regular amplifier in the room. This could be because of the stereo image that it produces or the reproduction of high frequency sounds that it's able to reproduce better than an amplifier and a speaker designed for amplifying guitar signal.
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@nflink...Beautiful playing and tone!
Others have already given great suggestions on replicating the tone you are chasing (a constant endeavor of most guitarists).
The closest I've been able to get close to the sound in your video is via my old '68 Silverface Princeton Reverb. There are tons of less expensive alternatives available these days.
Good hunting, and please drop a few more sound samples if possible.
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Thanks for the compliments everyone - I took Cunamara's advise and bought the Joyo American Sound, just because it's cheap and easy to try. Who knows maybe at some point I'll get a Henriksen bud 6 or 10 or something. The Monoprice 5-watt is also intriguing. At the same time I don't want to buy too much cheap gear if it doesn't really do the trick. It just sucks it's hard to actually try one of those Henriksens first. Who knows, I'll keep an eye out on craigslist.
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Yup I like the final recorded sound more, as well as the sound in the room direct into the computer. And I have tried recording both the princeton (with an upgraded speaker) and the blues Junior with pretty good mics. However, when I used to go direct before getting the Tukan plugins, it didn't sound as great. So it really is the plugins that are getting that sound. Which is what makes me think an amp sim pedal or something along those lines might do the trick. Maybe that through a tube amp would be perfect. I ordered a cheap one to give it a shot, the Joyo American, we'll see how that goes. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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The evenness of dynamic range and even aspects of your playing remind me of Lenny Breau. Maybe he's got the tone you're looking for, and I think his set up is pretty well documented.
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Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment ha, Lenny Breau's one of my favorite players. But I'm not really trying to copy his sound. Maybe something like his sound, but a bit more "modern" for lack of a better word. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Lovely playing!
As far as the tone, I can't hear what you''re hearing in your room - thru your equipment. But several thoughts passed through as I listened:
1. Could it be that the plug-in being used is overdriving the computer amplifiers, or the speakers. How many kids used old radios and tape recorders in their youth because they loved that fuzzy dirty overdriven little amp? And the speakers couldn't handle the signal! Audio equipment isn't always made to handle "guitar" tones and signals.
2. Maybe a quality, efficient speaker in your guitar amplifier is too Hi-fi ? At Weber, you can order less efficient speakers and lower power handling speakers. I did. I got a 30watt (a 20 watt version is available) Alnico magnet 12" speaker for my Princeton Reverb to achieve an older and softer tone for home use.
3. Speaking of pedals, I just received 2 inexpensive ones to experiment with. I don't want much Over Drive, most pedals for that give too much. So I ordered a Boost. It allows Bass and Treble (+ or - ), volume, and a gain control.
Very versatile - adds volume or not, tone control, and a fattening up of the guitar tone that I already love, just juicier.
Of course, I can boost into OD if I want to, but I like it just fattened up a bit. $32 delivered.
4. I thought about a mild OD pedal too, so I got a small "Blues Driver" clone too. Its appeal came to me when I heard a demo. It sounded like no OD was being used, but it is there on tap if wanted. And it is SMOOTH overdrive or
a warm fat boost. Same controls too, treble, bass, volume, and Gain.
I will supply the names of these pedals when I get back. But, they are exactly what I wanted, and remind me of your tone and your search. Good luck with the Joyo pedal. I read good things about that one too
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An ehx hot tubes does that slight breakup tone to a more saturated one. It doesn't cut off any of the highs or lows, and are cheap. Its an always on type pedal and its a lot of fun running into another dirt pedal. Cool fuzz. The videos on youtube exaggerate what the pedal can do. It doesn't get as wild as they make it out to be.
Last edited by Brian859; 03-16-2024 at 08:43 PM.
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Your strings, the guitar type (sustain etc..) and the amount/type of reverb you use, are likely the most important factors when recording via DI.
Enjoyed the playing
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More info, and thoughts - for the sake of discussion.
1. Recording an amp to get the optimal tone requires the process of and the art of miking. Maybe you have all this info?
But just sticking a mike in front of the speaker is not always the best way. I've had engineers do that for me, and the results were just OK. Moving the mike off axis would change the captured tone. maybe point it towards the paper of the spkr - not the center.
2. My new and great pedals: Tom'sLine Bluesy (vintage blues OD) makes it sound like an amp turned up and transparent so you KEEP your tone. I like this with my 335. Amazon - $44.00
VSN Booster. Similar but cleaner. Better with my single coil P90 guitar for some reason! Amazon - $32.00
These pedals make me love my tone, and of course, want to play more, without the neighbors complaining !!
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For the record, OD pedals I have are a Maxon Tube screamer, Rocket Archer, and a FC Boost. I'm not really into pedals, just had a guitar student a while back who was into them and would pay me sometimes with pedals lol. But I still haven't really found the sound I'm looking for. I always have to work for it, instead of the guitar playing itself, which it does when I go direct to the computer. There's a certain compression perhaps as well. But I also have a Wampler Ego from same guitar student, and every time I try it, it just doesn't work for me. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
So I wonder if these cheap OD's are worth trying. Or would it be redundant given what I already have?
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I did, I plugged my electric guitar into the family hi-fi stereo (via a DIN adapter plug), discovered the fuzz and ruined the speakers. My parents were not happy and it occurred to us; there's a difference between a hi-fi stereo and a guitar amp. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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Supposedly that's the origin of the Kinks signature sound, as a kid, Dave Davies could not afford to buy an electric guitar and amp, so he just got the guitar and plugged it into a radio speaker: Voila! You Really Got Me!
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That's because you can't get that sound from a dirt pedal. That's clean breakup at low volume. What you want is a low wattage amp, then use an eq to fatten it up and hit the amp harder. Ez pz. I'm currently using a 5 watt Hotone for my Leslie that works pretty well for solid state. Tube amps I've used in the past are a Peavey with a 1 watt option, and a Zvex Nano 1/2 watt. Something like those. Originally Posted by nflink
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to the OP
would you mind telling me the
chords you use in bars 7 and 8
its a lovely movementLast edited by pingu; 03-17-2024 at 10:26 AM.
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That overdrive is coming from the Tukan plugin when I turn up the gain. You'd think surely there's a pedal out there that's similar. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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