Acoustic Archtop - What issues should be disclosed/affect value?

[BlueBic]

Hello,
I just received my first real archtop in the mail, and it is very beautiful, sounds good (LOUD!), and plays well. However, there are a few issues that weren't disclosed. Does it affect the value if the top has sunken very slightly by the bridge? Or if the last few inches of the fretboard tilt down? Also, potentially related, does a clean refinish on a 1940s guitar affect the value?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

[omphalopsychos]

Some pictures would be helpful for the expert appraisers here. Everything you described is a significant value detractor but everything depends on severity of the issue.

[Jimmy blue note]

When and why these changes happened can also come into play too. A refinish done in the 50's could be seen differently from one done last week; it certainly would effect the sound. How much drop in the top? What kind of guitar? I've seen top sink to some degree in makers like Koontz and others,and it's stable and doesn't change the sound or playability adversely. Slope off the end of a fingerboard is normal, and even there by design, so it's a matter of degree and intention. Again, it's not something a description in words can really tell.
Some photos and a more detailed history please.

[deacon Mark]

Yes we must have pictures. On some Gibson the arch can appear such that the top is sunken a bit but that is actually the carving pattern. How the bridge sits on the top is a big indicator o what is going on. If the bridge is fully flush and even across the top arch of the guitar it might not really be sunk.

Bottom line is post a picture we need to know the guitar too that is most important.

[BlueBic]

Thanks for all the replies and apologies in advance for the dump here, and for taking so long to get back to you.
OK, I took a straightedge to the top and it does seem level. However, I just bought a small blacklight and the body doesn't glow at all while the neck glows a bright neon green, except for the fingerboard extension part. But the glowing part of the neck actually appears to be sprayed OVER the part which doesn't glow. Is it possible, then, that the original finish doesn't glow and there is some old overspray in a different type of lacquer?
Also, what really worries me is how thin the lower part of the top is. Having never owned a real archtop before, I'm not sure whether an Epiphone is supposed to get thinner towards the bridge/endpin side. My calipers are dead and I don't have a replacement battery so the measurements (taken at the F-hole) that follow are approximate: 5.5-6mm towards the headstock and 3.5-4mm towards the endpin.

[omphalopsychos]

It's still hard to tell from these two photos. It's also a bit unclear what you're trying to describe.

Usually it's the older stuff that has a pale green glow. So from the first photo I wonder if the body was oversprayed but the neck was not.

As for the top thickness, I wouldn't be concerned. Tops are not uniformly thick.

I don't know what made you think the top had sunk. I don't see anything suspicious.


It looks like a pretty clean Epiphone Triumph in a natural finish. Not particularly expensive or collectible but a very very nice guitar and what I would recommend to anyone as a first archtop. From the pictures you shared and your comment that it sounds and plays great, I would recommend not worrying about it.

[chris32895]

That's a nice natural finish on that instrument. Has a golden aging to it I really like

[garybaldy]

My take on the photos is that the action looks high and the bridge is pretty low.

[BlueBic]

The action goes down pretty low, so no issues there thank God.

[wintermoon]

Just a note, when using a blacklight you can't just look at some part of the finish that shows differently and determine that it's been worked on in that area. You need to use it in combination w the naked eye as well as have experience in looking at various finishes etc.

[deacon Mark]

Just a note, when using a blacklight you can't just look at some part of the finish that shows differently and determine that it's been worked on in that area. You need to use it in combination w the naked eye as well as have experience in looking at various finishes etc.

The blacklight is a bit of double talk too. If a guitar was refinished many years before and same nitro type finish you cannot determine if the guitar was every refinished. Blacklight looking at a finish can show things, but it does not really explain everything. I have a friend with a Super 400 that was from the 1940's. It was refinished by Gibson in about the early 1960's. A blacklight just shows the typical greenish overcast and tells you nothing about the guitar. To me it could easily be taken as never refinished but the fellow knows it was by records.

The Antique Road Show and the supposedly experts from the various auction houses have done a huge disservice to vintage guitars. The make them into everything until you try and sell it to them or get top dollar.

[omphalopsychos]

Agreed w the above. Just trying to give a POV on the very limited info provided.

Black light methodology comes with a million caveats and please take my statements above with a grain of salt.

[deacon Mark]

Agreed w the above. Just trying to give a POV on the very limited info provided.

Black light methodology comes with a million caveats and please take my statements above with a grain of salt.

In the world today any we say, "can and will be used against us."

[wintermoon]

Sunburst guitars are typically easier than natural in determining an old refin if you know the various colors/shading a particular manufacturer used in certain eras. For example a knowledgeable person can instantly spot the difference between a 50s Gibson sunburst compared to a 60s finish.