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That's lucky. You are still alive and you get to keep the wife.....
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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03-11-2024 02:53 PM
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Has she broken the news to YOU yet about the Oyster Bamboo Fly Rod?
JD
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Well you at least you don't have the problem of introducing a NEW WIFE to the guitar. That would definitely be a more expensive situation.
Fly fishing, I remember reading the great Ted Williams the last .400 hitter was one of the best fly fishermen around. Johnny Smith like to fish too much more than play the guitar even. I know he said so.
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Well, it's March in the driftless region in Iowa where they went, so the trouts were keeping kind of low. My wife got one chub on the first day and one trout on the final day; the professional guide in the group only caught a few, and the other very experienced fly fisherwoman only caught one. However, as the old saying goes, a bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work. Originally Posted by wintermoon
great but more importantly, how was the fishing??
Without quoting everybody else's responses, thank you all! Joe, you're right, she does want me to be happy. Not, as you say, Gibson Citation happy but happy nonetheless. I am alive and I get to keep my wife, two wonderful things. Although, as pointed out, there may be a really nice fishing pole in the offing.
I can't begrudge her!
I took the ES-175 out this evening for the first time to play with somebody else. This is a guitar/bass duo and, boy howdy, does that sit nice in a mix like that. There is something about the ergonomics of the instrument that seems to make it a little easier to play jazz lines. I've never played "Round Midnight" better. The neck is just a little wider than most of my other guitars and somehow that seemed to help with the flow of musical ideas. The size and shape sit just a little differently in my lap than my 17" carvetop, a little more like the classical guitar neck up position and that seems to help too.
For years I have suspected that I've bought all these various guitars (Ibanez GB10, Cushman, Teles, Strat, etc.) to play jazz on when I really wanted the ES-175 sound. My suspicion may have been correct. Continued research is necessary.
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Funny coincidence- my ES-175 was built on my wife's birthday in 2005.
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Well, it has now been three months since I bought the ES-175. It has pretty much been the only guitar I've been playing since. I'm not sure if I'm still in the honeymoon period or if, as I have long suspected, the sound I'm looking for is that sound versus all the other "jazz" guitars I've had. The neck is very similar to my '81 GB10, which still has the nicest neck I've ever played. The ES-175 is a very, very close second. Same width, same scale, but the GB10 is maybe a millimeter or two thinner even with the bigger frets. Just barely noticeable. The ergonomics, sitting or standing, are really comfortable; I can play this guitar for long stretches of time without fatigue. It tends to want to be in the neck-up position, à la Joe Pass, which I happen to like a lot. I swapped out the original TOM bridge with metal saddles for one with nylon saddles, which felt like an improvement. I have since replaced that with a compensated rosewood Sadowsky saddle and am really liking that (he doesn't seem to offer those on his website anymore).
I often switch between pick and fingerstyle, sometimes with a thumbpick and sometimes not. I'm finding that when playing fingerstyle I like to have the switch in the middle position, and when playing with a pick having it on the neck pickup. The sweep of the volume and tone controls seems to be much more gradual than most of my other guitars, yielding a lot of useful different tones. The ES-175 does not seem to get shrill or harsh, unlike my carvetop with everything wide open. It does not seem to thunk a lot, but I use roundwound strings so that might account for that. I am not looking for the thunk and that's OK.
Overall, I am delighted. It does not have much of an acoustic sound, particularly compared to my carvetop, but that's not what it's for. It's loud enough that I can practice on the couch without an amp if I am so inclined. I am very happy with the sound I get from it and am finding that this helps with confidence when playing with others. As someone noted upthread, as I play it longer I find my appreciation for it increasing.
I also bought a Reunion Blues Voyager gig bag for it, which certainly makes toting it around a lot easier.
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I really like that two-color burst. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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It’s amazing how many guitarists I know are into fishing. I have been looking into volunteering to help out with the stocking program. Missed it this year because of illness, planning on it next year. Originally Posted by wintermoon
congrats on the guitar but boy do I miss fly fishing. was heavily into it since I was about 10 but life and music gigs got in the way. a fly fishing wife, how cool! let me know if you ever get tired of her.....just kidding of course.
enjoy the guitar and don't forget to catch and release, the fish, not the guitar......
One time I was fishing a well-known steelhead trib, and was getting not even a hit. Along came a truck carrying several scientists from Cornell to do a count. They were dressed in rubber and stuck some kind of electrode thingies into the water. At least several dozen big steelies floated to the surface. The surface was completely covered with fish. Damn, what was I doing wrong?
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There's a reason the 175 is possibly the most recorded "jazz" guitar in history.
Great catch!
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Congratulations on the guitar and your upcoming retirement. I hope unlike me you will have more time to play guitar! Enjoy it I am sure you have earned both.
Thanks John
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beautiful guitar, congrats!
I have a couple SG's but I look forward to getting an ES-175 myself one day.
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It was also probably the guitar most used by gigging musicians at all levels for several decades, until they were no longer readily available and without competition from clones. They sound great and are tough as nails, feedback resistant compared to carved tops, versatile, great looking, and just the right size for most of us. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It was in production for 70 years and the backbone of the arsenal for many pros throughout its run. Back in the ‘50s and ‘60s, we never dreamed that they wouldn’t be readily available forever. I truly miss mine more than anything else from my past.
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They may not be making them at the moment but there's so many out there I don’t think you'll have to look hard to find one anytime soon. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I'm afraid that's only half the battle, my friend. To me, "readily available" means affordable. If the cost of living had stayed the same and the pay scale for gigs had kept pace with the cost of 175s, it'd be a no brainer. But as you well know, that didn't happen. The $200 I paid for my used 175DN in the spring of 1961 is equivalent to about $2k today. I earned back its cost in 6 or 7 gigs. The summer of '64, my trio played the Golden Inn in Avalon for 10 weeks and I earned the cost of that 175 before the end of the 2nd week. By 1970, I got paid enough for a 5 hour continuous wedding with an hour of OT to buy a new 175 after 2 or 3 gigs - and I was playing at least 2 most weekends for about 35 weeks a year along with steady restaurant gigs on weeknights and one off jazz dates. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Even if you could get a decent 175 for $2k now, you'd have to play more than twice that number of bar and restaurant dates to pay for it. There are fewer available gigs while food, transportation, housing, clothes, and everything else cost far more than they did back in the day. And even well used 175s cost far more than $2k. So I don't consider them readily available to the younger musicians who need them.
Worse, the value of a 175 today is high enough to make most of those youngsters afraid to take one on a gig. Insurance is similarly high, and the value of the instruments is now well above the basic unscheduled limit in most homeowners' policies. I understand completely why many pros now use Asian made laminated boxes. They sound great, have the look and feel of a fine instrument, and are "readily available" at far lower cost than a 175. Whether they'll last is a different story, but I'm now seeing 20 year old Eastman archtops and they're holding up well so far.
The above argument is even more compelling when you look at the cost of education, since most young players are struggling to pay for that too. I played that 175 through all 4 years of college. My tuition reached a shocking $1900 senior year, and room & board cost $1100. I had merit scholarships for half of that. Graduate school tuition was an equally shocking $2500 when I started and $3k when I finished. Compared to today's prices, food was free. I lived on Dewey's chili dogs and White Castle sacks o' burgers before and after classes. And I kept my apartment fridge full of lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, beer, and fruit for pennies a day. The tomato I just brought home an hour ago cost $2.29 at the Acme. A can of cheap beer now costs more than a 6 pack did we were young - a Wurst House Whoopee Pack (a 6 pack of assorted beers) was $1.
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yes the cost of the ones I've seen are around 3k to 5k, that's what's kept me from buying one.
I used to have a Custom Shop Gibson Les Paul and I found that I ended up leaving it in the case a lot of the time and instead just used a regular 'production run' Les Paul Standard. At the time the Standard was like 1/3rd the price of the Custom Shop one. It was always a dream to have a Custom Shop Les Paul but I didn't know that once I had it I would be too scared to take it out on gigs. I was worried it would get damaged or stolen. (I was playing in rock/metal bands at the time so gigs could get rowdy.)
When I started getting into Jazz (thanks Barney Kessel!) I really wanted and still want an ES-175, but I ended up getting a George Benson guitar because it was about the closest thing I could find to an ES-175 for under $1,500.
In the past I generally hated Ibanez stock pickups, but I've found myself really liking the 58's that came in the Benson guitar and so far don't have any urge to swap them out.
I still very much would like an ES-175 just because I really like Gibson and own and have owned a lot in almost 40 years of playing. But the cost of the ones I see on Reverb are really high. And then buying online without playing it first?,...eh... not at those prices.
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Understood. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
That '61 175N would be around 15k today
$2.29 for what I'm assuming is a hot house tomato? Just don't put it in the fridge. I wait all summer for them, up until a few yrs ago I was growing my own, nothing like a fresh Jersey tomato salad. counting down the days......
Last edited by wintermoon; 05-29-2024 at 04:47 PM.
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Good for you. How much? Tell her it's an investment. Which, it prolly is a good place to park your money.
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Like the 175, the real Jersey beefsteak tomato is another sweet classic that’s no longer readily available. As much as I hate sounding like my father, we’ve lost a lot of the joy that we used to take for granted in daily life. I hope the best of today’s guitars (and everything else) will be appreciated and valued enough to keep them around. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Now that I think of it, I haven’t seen a Bermuda onion in many years either. They were sweeeeet!
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My childhood was spent in Philadelphia and Atlantic City/Ventnor. I miss those Jersey Tomatoes ( along with the Hoagies, Cheesesteaks, water ices, pretzels and Dewey's Hot Dogs.)
As luck would have it, I have three Gibson ES-175s. At least I am good in that department.
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Super cool, congratulations on the sweet find!
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Ah I lived in the Driftless region for 10 years in LaCrosse, WI. I never fly fished there unfortunately… Originally Posted by Cunamara
Well, it's March in the driftless region in Iowa where they went, so the trouts were keeping kind of low. My wife got one chub on the first day and one trout on the final day; the professional guide in the group only caught a few, and the other very experienced fly fisherwoman only caught one. However, as the old saying goes, a bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work.
Without quoting everybody else's responses, thank you all! Joe, you're right, she does want me to be happy. Not, as you say, Gibson Citation happy but happy nonetheless. I am alive and I get to keep my wife, two wonderful things. Although, as pointed out, there may be a really nice fishing pole in the offing. I can't begrudge her!
I took the ES-175 out this evening for the first time to play with somebody else. This is a guitar/bass duo and, boy howdy, does that sit nice in a mix like that. There is something about the ergonomics of the instrument that seems to make it a little easier to play jazz lines. I've never played "Round Midnight" better. The neck is just a little wider than most of my other guitars and somehow that seemed to help with the flow of musical ideas. The size and shape sit just a little differently in my lap than my 17" carvetop, a little more like the classical guitar neck up position and that seems to help too.
For years I have suspected that I've bought all these various guitars (Ibanez GB10, Cushman, Teles, Strat, etc.) to play jazz on when I really wanted the ES-175 sound. My suspicion may have been correct. Continued research is necessary.
These days we go to Lanesboro and fish the Root River. There’s also good fishing at Forestville, a little SW of there.
Well, I say good. Trout are hard to catch on a good day, at least for me. But there’s nothing like wading in the river and casting flies to relax the mind. I’ve fished for hours near Forestville without seeing another human. I’ve also seen 20-30 big trout at the bottom of a pool who are completely immune to biting on whatever I’m floating past them.
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I went to college in Winona 77-81 and lived/worked in La Crosse 83-88. Used to go to the blues night jam at Pearl Street initially, then it was at the Jazz Questor for a couple years, can't remember the name of the place on 3rd & Pearl that hosted for a while. There was a spot on the North side for a while, too. Think it was at the Den for a time and B&R's, both after I moved to the Twin Cities. Fun times with Howard Leudtke, Sky Dog Blues Band, Dave R, the Keenans... looking at Google Maps I think I wouldn't recognize most of the businesses in downtown La Crosse any more except for the Bodega, maybe. Studied with Bill Ebert in college and then when he was teaching at Leithold's.
My wife and her fly fishing buddies fish at Forestville a few times a year.
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Here’s another example of how things have changed. I never knew in what year my 175 was made. Nobody cared back then because it was a tool - a wonderful, beautiful tool for sure, but few players obsessed over such details in the early ‘60s. There was no collectors’ market, and there was what we thought would remain an endless stream of 175s. Originally Posted by wintermoon
That '61 175N would be around 15k today
As best I can recall, I got it in the spring of ‘61, and it already had the usual marks from a gigging life. Al did a level, crown and polish when I got it, so the frets had some wear already. It had PAFs, so it had to be a ‘59 or early ‘60 since I don’t think there were any ‘58s with humbuckers. [CORRECTION: I should have said ‘58, ‘59 or early ‘60, since there weren’t any ‘57s with HBs] The blondes listed for $305 and were pretty rare, so $200 was a great price even with a Gretsch case.
In keeping with the fishing subtheme in this thread, I was a salt water fisherman like every other self respecting South Jersey boy. My rods and Penn reels were up there with my Gibson as the finest things in life! But we don’t tie no flies - it was live bait.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 05-30-2024 at 10:25 AM.
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Late '57 is when humbuckers appeared Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Right. But they first appear in a 175 in the ‘58 catalog, and only in the D. The single PU 175 still has a P90 in the picture. 1958 was a transition year, so they may have put PAFs in 175s made later in the year. I think the catalog says the single PU version has a HB despite the illustration. I’ll dig it out and check. [EDIT: That’s what it says.] Originally Posted by wintermoon
Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 05-30-2024 at 10:43 AM.
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