I blame you all

[ruger9]

The LP is a great solid body jazz guitar. Everything doesn't have to be a Tele god damn it.

Haha! True!! Just as long as it's not a STRAT...

[omphalopsychos]

Man I love a strat for jazz. I don’t know if the hatred is based on tribalism or experience but I just don’t get it. It’s so silly to me to have the “tele camp” vs “Strat camp”. Guitars are good man. They’re all awesome. Ultimately it comes down to the player and their connection to the instrument. Someone not getting a good tone out of a guitar is never due to the guitar alone.

same tune different strat different player.

Bottom line: give me any guitar and I can play a jazz set on it with good tone.

I might still pick an R9 right now given the choice though.


Edit: I’ll also add that I think a strat has a naturally archtop-like attack due to the compression caused by the floating bridge. A strat with darker, hotter pickups can sound very much like a hollow body.

[customxke]

Quentin Warren's strat sounds pretty good with Jimmy Smith.

[jim777]

I want to get one of those new '61 Strats, I'll never get an actual '61 but a birth year style Strat would be really cool to have.

[Stringswinger]

The Les Paul and the Stratocaster were both developed with jazz in mind (Western Swing being the force behind the Strat). The two iconic guitars have dominated all genres of music with the exception of jazz. Jazz guitarists are a seriously conservative bunch (when it comes to guitars) with most preferring an archtop. Some jazz guitarists like Gypsy guitars or Classicals (more conservative choices) and some like Telecasters and semi-hollows. I have owned many guitars over the years and truth be told, I favor an archtop myself. But as I started out as a rock guitarist, Strats and Les Pauls were the guitars that I coveted the most as a young boy. I have owned a few Telecasters and I have had many Semi-Hollows. I never bonded with either, but I continue to love Les Pauls and Stratocasters. In my view, they make excellent jazz guitars. That said, I am pretty certain that I could do a jazz gig on a Parker Fly and that I would sound fine.

It ain't the tool, it is the mechanic. But if you are convinced that you will not sound good on a Strat, don't play one. Pre-concieved notions can be a powerful thing.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The Les Paul and the Stratocaster were both developed with jazz in mind (Western Swing being the force behind the Strat). The two iconic guitars have dominated all genres of music with the exception of jazz. Jazz guitarists are a seriously conservative bunch (when it comes to guitars) with most preferring an archtop. Some jazz guitarists like Gypsy guitars or Classicals (more conservative choices) and some like Telecasters and semi-hollows. I have owned many guitars over the years and truth be told, I favor an archtop myself. But as I started out as a rock guitarist, Strats and Les Pauls were the guitars that I coveted the most as a young boy. I have owned a few Telecasters and I have had many Semi-Hollows. I never bonded with either, but I continue to love Les Pauls and Stratocasters. In my view, they make excellent jazz guitars. That said, I am pretty certain that I could do a jazz gig on a Parker Fly and that I would sound fine.

It ain't the tool, it is the mechanic. But if you are convinced that you will not sound good on a Strat, don't play one. Pre-concieved notions can be a powerful thing.

There’s certainly no denying Eldon Shamblin on that old Strat Leo gave him (rumored to be the first custom color Strat ever).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John A.]

Man I love a strat for jazz. I don’t know if the hatred is based on tribalism or experience but I just don’t get it. It’s so silly to me to have the “tele camp” vs “Strat camp”. Guitars are good man. They’re all awesome. Ultimately it comes down to the player and their connection to the instrument. Someone not getting a good tone out of a guitar is never due to the guitar alone.

I love my strat for jazz, too. I think the reality is that guitar forums are not a representative sample of guitar players. If I were to show up at a jazz jam session attended only by forum-denizens with my Strat, I'd get snark. In the real world, I go to sessions or gigs with my strat and I get "cool-looking guitar, is it new?"

Bottom line: give me any guitar and I can play a jazz set on it with good tone.

Yup.

I might still pick an R9 right now given the choice though.

Not much point in buying a guitar you don't play. And the newest one is always the best one (for a while ...)

Edit: I’ll also add that I think a strat has a naturally archtop-like attack due to the compression caused by the floating bridge. A strat with darker, hotter pickups can sound very much like a hollow body.

I don't think I quite agree with this bit. I perceive archtops to have a more percussive attach and greater dynamics than strats, other solid-bodies, and semis, though for me that might be at least in part due to set-up (10's on my strat and my semi, 13's on my archtop).

[omphalopsychos]

I just want to clarify some terms. Dynamic range, in the context of music and audio, is typically defined as the difference in volume between the quietest and the loudest point of a piece of music or sound. In a technically precise context, this is measured in decibels (dB).

A common misconception often arises when people equate dynamic range with the range of expression or complexity/variety of timbre. While these aspects are certainly critical to the tonal profile of an instrument, they are technically separate from dynamic range. When speaking of a guitar or another stringed instrument, dynamic range is determined by variables such as the guitar's construction, the type and gauge of strings used, playing technique, and the electronics involved in amplification. Precisely, it's quantified by the decibel difference between the loudest sound (the transient when a string is first struck) and the quietest sound (the sustain level before the string comes to rest).

An electric guitar, regardless of it being a solid-body or a hollow-body, produces sound primarily through the vibration of the strings. These vibrations are picked up by the guitar's pickups, which convert them into an electric signal that can be amplified.

Solid-body guitars: These guitars are crafted from a solid piece of wood, which doesn't resonate as much when the strings are plucked. Because of this, more energy from the string vibrations stays within the strings themselves, leading to a louder initial sound, known as the transient, when the strings are first struck. This results in an increased dynamic range, which in music and acoustics refers to the difference in amplitude between the loudest (the peak of the transient) and the quietest (the sustain level) sounds produced by the guitar.

Hollow-body guitars: Hollow-body guitars have chambers inside, allowing the body to resonate along with the strings. When the strings are plucked, energy from the strings is transferred to the guitar's body and the air within, causing resonance that creates a warm and full tone. However, this transfer of energy also means that the initial transient is not as loud as in a solid body, because some of the initial energy is used to stimulate this body and air resonance. With a quieter transient and a more rapid decay due to the energy transferring out of the strings, the dynamic range is reduced in a hollow body guitar.

In essence, the solid body guitar's design leads to a louder initial transient and thus a wider dynamic range, while the hollow body's design absorbs some of the vibration energy to stimulate body and air resonance, resulting in a reduced transient volume and thereby a narrower dynamic range. These phenomena are due to the fundamental principles of physics, and specifically energy conservation and transfer.

A floating bridge on a guitar like the Stratocaster can have an impact on the dynamic range. A floating bridge is designed to "float" on springs, allowing it to move forward and backward slightly. This setup is mostly used for enabling vibrato effects via a whammy bar. It also disperses some of the string's vibration energy into moving the bridge, rather than transmitting it into the guitar body. This energy loss can cause a slight decrease in sustain and a quieter transient, resulting in a potentially narrowed dynamic range.

Of course a lot of the above is affected by setup, technique, etc.

[omphalopsychos]

I love my strat for jazz, too. I think the reality is that guitar forums are not a representative sample of guitar players. If I were to show up at a jazz jam session attended only by forum-denizens with my Strat, I'd get snark. In the real world, I go to sessions or gigs with my strat and I get "cool-looking guitar, is it new?"

100% agree. Forums are very particular niches. I often find my experiences disgreeing with conventional forum wisdom.

[John A.]

I just want to clarify some terms. Dynamic range, in the context of music and audio, is typically defined as the difference in volume between the quietest and the loudest point of a piece of music or sound. In a technically precise context, this is measured in decibels (dB).

Yes, DR is the range from lowest to highest dB. But guitar amps are not straight lines with gain, and human ears and psycho-acoustic processing are not flat response measurement mics. Perception of DR in practical music-making conditions and measurement of DR are not necessarily the same thing.

A common misconception often arises when people equate dynamic range with the range of expression or complexity/variety of timbre.

I suffer from many misconceptions, but not this one.

While these aspects are certainly critical to the tonal profile of an instrument, they are technically separate from dynamic range. When speaking of a guitar or another stringed instrument, dynamic range is determined by variables such as the guitar's construction, the type and gauge of strings used, playing technique, and the electronics involved in amplification. Precisely, it's quantified by the decibel difference between the loudest sound (the transient when a string is first struck) and the quietest sound (the sustain level before the string comes to rest).

The electronics involved in amplification behave differently (including in terms of dynamics) with different timbre signals under different operating conditions. So I don't think capturing DR under real-world music-making conditions is as simple as you make it out to be.

An electric guitar, regardless of it being a solid-body or a hollow-body, produces sound primarily through the vibration of the strings. These vibrations are picked up by the guitar's pickups, which convert them into an electric signal that can be amplified.

Yup.

Solid-body guitars: These guitars are crafted from a solid piece of wood, which doesn't resonate as much when the strings are plucked. Because of this, more energy from the string vibrations stays within the strings themselves, leading to a louder initial sound, known as the transient, when the strings are first struck. This results in an increased dynamic range, which in music and acoustics refers to the difference in amplitude between the loudest (the peak of the transient) and the quietest (the sustain level) sounds produced by the guitar.

Hollow-body guitars: Hollow-body guitars have chambers inside, allowing the body to resonate along with the strings. When the strings are plucked, energy from the strings is transferred to the guitar's body and the air within, causing resonance that creates a warm and full tone. However, this transfer of energy also means that the initial transient is not as loud as in a solid body, because some of the initial energy is used to stimulate this body and air resonance. With a quieter transient and a more rapid decay due to the energy transferring out of the strings, the dynamic range is reduced in a hollow body guitar.

In essence, the solid body guitar's design leads to a louder initial transient and thus a wider dynamic range, while the hollow body's design absorbs some of the vibration energy to stimulate body and air resonance, resulting in a reduced transient volume and thereby a narrower dynamic range. These phenomena are due to the fundamental principles of physics, and specifically energy conservation and transfer.

All I can say is that With my 3 electric guitars, I perceive greatest dynamic range and loudest transients in the archtop and least in the strat.

A floating bridge on a guitar like the Stratocaster can have an impact on the dynamic range. A floating bridge is designed to "float" on springs, allowing it to move forward and backward slightly. This setup is mostly used for enabling vibrato effects via a whammy bar. It also disperses some of the string's vibration energy into moving the bridge, rather than transmitting it into the guitar body. This energy loss can cause a slight decrease in sustain and a quieter transient, resulting in a potentially narrowed dynamic range.

My strat sustains the most of my 3 guitars (at least with open strings and lower frets. I think my semi catches it up top)

Of course a lot of the above is affected by setup, technique, etc.

And filtered through perception.

[Tom Wright]

Floating bridge is usually taken to mean "not fixed", and is held in place by the string pressure.

To my ears and in my experience a main difference is not overall dynamic range (hugely dependent on technique and amplification) but the attack characteristic. A compliant top will soften the initial "ping" but shorten the overall sustain. This is best for playing without significant clipping, as the peaks don't need the trimming. Solid body guitars need either very light picking and some effects (Mike Stern) or the tone rolled all the way off to tame the attack (Ed Bickert).

The ES 355 is a popular compromise that offers a milder attack but also good sustain.

[ruger9]

I was actually joking about the strat... sarcasm. I'm all for "play whatever you want".

I've got 'em all: Tele, strat, 6120 Gretsch with Filtertrons, DGT (like a Les Paul), EBMM LukeIII (cross between a strat and LP)... I've got a P90 tele too.

The strat is never what I reach for to play jazzier stuff, but...

[bluejaybill]

I was actually joking about the strat... sarcasm. I'm all for "play whatever you want".

I've got 'em all: Tele, strat, 6120 Gretsch with Filtertrons, DGT (like a Les Paul), EBMM LukeIII (cross between a strat and LP)... I've got a P90 tele too.

The strat is never what I reach for to play jazzier stuff, but...

I have a variety as well, and I agree, a strat just isn't my first choice for jazz.

I prefer arch tops, even an LP or telecaster to a strat. Maybe if I set it up specifically for jazz it would be better, but then it wouldn't do all of the things I love a strat to do.

When I pick up my strat I immediately play blusier, funkier, rockier.

[Oscar67]

I admire a player like Oz Noy for letting his Strat sound like a Strat. Not much point in trying to get it to sound like a 175, even if you can. Ditto Julian Lage with his (somewhat Gretschy sounding) Collings signature model. In the end it’s all about the music. Ulf Wakenius played some cheap LP copy that he paid $150 for and in his hands it sounded great.

I don’t have a Strat myself but I do have a PRS DC3 that I’ve been tempted to sell because I don’t play it much. This thread made me plug it in and do some jazz and it’s really great: dry and woody and open and dynamic, even some thunk to it. By now it’s 14 years old and sounds way better than when I bought it new in 2012. Mine looks exactly like the one in this vid.

Sorry for not helping to steer this thread back on topic btw

[ruger9]

That's where I'm at. Instead of "getting a jazz tone from a tele" (by using bigger, flatwound strings and turning down the tone knob), let a tele be a tele. I play my P90 tele because it has it's own sound, all my guitars. That's the point of having different guitars. If I want a P90 neck tone, I don't pick up my tele or my DGT, I pick up my P90 tele or even my 6120 Gretsch (it can do a reasonable P90 tone because it has the "tone switch" on it). If I want to play twangier bridge pickup stuff (not jazz), I don't pick up my DGT and coil-tap the bridge humbucker, I pickup up my tele. As Engineer Scott would say "aye, ya need the right tool for the job!"

Altho a twangy bridge pickup can do some pretty cool jazz (if you're Julian Lage...)

[Geunther]

Congrats on that Murphy Lab acquisition, sweet! I LOVE a flame-top LP! I blame Jimmy Page, Mick Taylor, and Peter Green. I put this one together from a Precision Guitar Kits kit about 12 years ago.

[Max405]

The only way I can get an acceptable 4 to the bar sound with a solid body guitar is with single coil pickups. In general though, I prefer an archtop or Gypsy guitar for that application.

Lesters are great for solo chord melody stuff. The sustain gets you into territory that only a piano can rival.

SS, So well put and I TOTALLY agree. And much of the electric Jazz Guitar sound that I strive for in my archtops are very easily attained with the flick of a switch on the LP.
They are SOOOO easy to play. In fact they play themselves moreso than an archtop. Even though they can be a little on the heavy side, they fit right in your pocket and are extraordinarily comfortable to play, for hours.
Omph, I love your new guitar buddy. Just the mere fact that you couldnt wait to get home and play it some more says everything about it. When you get right down to it, getting a new guitar, if nothing else, should make you play more. Playing more is a good thing. One other thing, you can put lighter strings on an LP, which will make your fingers last longer for sure.
Great thread about a guitar that should not be overlooked on a Jazz Guitar Forum.
JD

[hotpepper01]

I plea guilty as well, sorry. Over the last 15 year I haved owned several LPs, ranging from studio's to 3PU custom BB. From brandnew to having been around the block. The one that got away was a 1980 custom with Tim Shaws in it. Never should have let it go. But I traded that for a L5... At present only 1 Les Paul remains. My 1975 winered custom has seen a lot of action, has had the neck broken that was repaired, shows lots of the battle scars. Weighs a ton or more. The strange part of her story is that it was played for the first 25 years or so. Then she was stowed away in her case and 15 years later decided to sell her. I took me about a minute to decide that I had to buy her.
Funny part is that some year later I saw an add where a guy from Belgium was specifically was looking for my guitar. He even had pictures of the repaired broken neck. He stated it had belonged to his uncle. I was not willing to let it go.
As I get not any younger, the guitar is not getting any lighter. I have been considering to sell her and to get one of the light weight satin honey burst LP instead. So far, I have not done that.

[jim777]

One thing I think we can all agree on, is that when you take out the guitar you haven't played in a looong time and plug it in, it sounds wonderful and magical for a few days and you wonder why you don't play it anymore

[ruger9]

One thing I think we can all agree on, is that when you take out the guitar you haven't played in a looong time and plug it in, it sounds wonderful and magical for a few days and you wonder why you don't play it anymore

MOST of the time anyway... (amps too!)

[garybaldy]

Not to everyone's taste and just a 2004 standard but I like it!

[ruger9]

Not to everyone's taste and just a 2004 standard but I like it!

Unique for sure!

[ruger9]

Mine's not an actual Les Paul, but might as well be... maple cap over mahogany, 2 PAFs...

[PDeville]

I love my 59RI Les Paul. It's a 2007 with (madagascar rosewood board), with really nice wood.
I think the pots might be vintage CTS. They actually work!

My only probably is getting the high E-string string to stop buzzing and to have a sweeter sound (impossible).
Has anyone tried nylon saddles on a Les Paul?

[Oscar67]

DTG’s are awesome! Yours sure is a beauty! I’ll never part with mine.