Grover tuner washers

[John A.]

Another thread on how much to tighten tuner buttons got me thinking ... The set of Super Rotomatics I have on one of my guitars has always been a little fussy -- a couple get loose easily, a couple are stiffer than the rest. So I found a set of replacement washers (Sweetwater has them for $4.95 with free shipping) to see if that made a difference. The set includes 6 flat metal washers, 6 nylon washers, and 6 metal spring washers.

As I disassembled mine, I found something odd -- some of mine had only the nylon washer, some had the nylon + the spring (not all oriented the same way), and none had the flat washer. I've neve taken them apart before, so either the previous owner of the guitar did, and put them back together inconsistently, or the tuners came from the factory this way. Either way, it's odd. Googling around, I couldn't find anything definitive on how many there are supposed to be, with the variation maybe being related to the different versions of Rotomatics on the market. Hmmm. So I put 1 flat, 1 nylon, and 1 spring in each. All now feel the same, and the ones that loosened easily are now staying put.

Do any of you guys know what the story is with Grover washers? How many should there be? Could putting all three in a tuner that had only two (or 1) be a bad thing?

[sgosnell]

As long as there are enough threads to hold it all together securely, I don't see how more washers could be a problem. The split spring washers do most of the work, and the others are there to prevent them from digging into the headstock. Not all tuners come with the split washers, though, and they're technically not absolutely necessary, but I think they usually do a good job. The real job of all the washers is to prevent the nut from digging into the headstock, so flats are all that are necessary, but the rest do help.

[John A.]

As long as there are enough threads to hold it all together securely, I don't see how more washers could be a problem. The split spring washers do most of the work, and the others are there to prevent them from digging into the headstock. Not all tuners come with the split washers, though, and they're technically not absolutely necessary, but I think they usually do a good job. The real job of all the washers is to prevent the nut from digging into the headstock, so flats are all that are necessary, but the rest do help.

I'm not talking about headstock washers and bushings. I'm talking about a small flat washer, nylon o-ring, and spring (but not split) washer that go between the button and the body of the tuner.

[AllanAllen]

My Eastman has grover style tuners. the shaft has nylon, metal washer and then the button. No flat washers. I got this guitar new from Chicago Music Exchange. I saw them open the box. Probably decided the flat washer was redundant somewhere along the line.

Checked my 2000's (which is technically vintage at this point, LOL) Broadway, it's got flat washer, nylon, locking washer, button.

[John A.]

I wrote to Grover to ask about the right way to install the washers, and they just wrote back. They say the order from the tuner body out should be nylon washer, flat washer, spring washer, button. I had done flat->nylon->spring, so I switched it to nylon->flat->spring. It's acstually a little smoother.

[sgosnell]

Ah, those washers. Entirely different. Glad you got it sorted out. I've seen those come with different numbers of washers in different orders, sometimes twice as many as that. It seems to be something of a crapshoot as to what you get. That order sounds logical to me.

[Geunther]

Guess I've been lucky and never had any problem with Grover Rotomatic tuner smoothness so never had a reason to get into those washers, including some old "Pat. Pend.", only an occasional adjustment of that outer screw on the button. But who knows, I may have a problem with one tomorrow, glad to see this bit of knowledge shared.

One thing I have noticed regarding the large headstock washers is the current production has the top of those washers flattened instead of the overall arched roundness of the older ones and also a teeny bit smaller diameter, kinda disappointing for those of us who get obsessed over retro details, but good news for the vintage parts sellers.