Archtop Options...

[Flowboy]

Okay, starting a new thread here to avoid diverting another one even more than I already have!
I've become intrigued by full archtops. That is deep body types only. I'm not yet sure I need another guitar but...

I haven't ever played a "jazz" archtop. I've known many guitarists but none has ever owned one, so they're not super common. Our local large music store is all rock oriented guitars & the smaller places are flat top folk territory.

Also I've always used roundwound strings.
How many players are using flatwound? I can't remember the last time I tried even a bass, with any on, so decades at least.

Are flatwounds partly the reason for that lovely woody tone of a good archtop? My 60s Hofner president bass (laminated top) doesn't seem like much acoustically but has a somewhat woody McCartney-esque tone amplified, which I take to be the vintage pickup sound. It by chance has always had roundwounds.

I've played cheap laminated acoustic flat tops for years & I know solid tops sound better. So although looking online, there are many affordable, even cheap modern archtops available, they are all laminated. I would have to try one to be convinced tone wise.
I'm thinking probably a single pickup but a good acoustic tone would tempt me.

For the same reason I stopped buying tropical hardwood plywood for work years ago, I have a preference not to fell any more old growth Spruce, Rosewood or Ebony. I don't think there is a world shortage of guitars, but forests are under immense pressure.
So it's used for me & probably old / vintage.

Re. affordable vintage it seems there are a lot of post ww2 cheap laminated (plywood) European F hole archtop guitars of varying quality, from tolerable to terrible.

An issue seems to be lack of truss rods, so potentially terrible neck problems, unplayable action etc. This makes online buying of pre 60s certainly pre 50's problematic.
Seeing that most sellers seem incapable of giving even the essential the specs of the guitar, you are taking a big risk. So many almost say "For sale, xxxx guitar", as if you already know everything about that DeArmond or Hoyer or Gibson... Yet it really takes very little effort!
Beyond truss rods, I have a particular issue with nut width. It's almost never given but I have larger hands & prefer wider necks, 45mm ballpark. I have played enough 42/43mm to know they are hard to form chords on without damping open strings etc. I recently saw a very nice looking old Hoyer but 40mm nut? That's ridiculous! & not for me. (At least they gave the spec. so thumbs up.) Obv' I love my 330 at std Gibson width! I don't really play Jazz on it & prefer my 45-46mm acoustics for big chordal things.

Back to tops, having seen a few recently, I'm interested to know about the solid wood "German Carve" tops, do they differ tonally from the violin carve? Was it a development to ease production time & costs, or more of aesthetic thing? Did it have any effect on tone or acoustic projection?
It seems the very large body guitars reputedly project more, better for big band use, (if they're prepared not to drown you out). I don't play big band so less of an issue but I do play with a drummer & he is quite loud, even with the lightest sticks. So amplified is probably practical.
Enough for now! :-)

[himself]

I guess you can find several threads about flat/round strings here. I yous flats even on tele and I'm pretty sure it influences the tone as well as playability/squeek noise.
On an acoustic archtop I would consider using roundwounds because of the stronger and brigter tone.

[Cunamara]

In the world of archtop guitars, solid carved wood guitars don't necessarily sound "better" than laminates. It depends on your sonic goals. Many recordings have been made with laminate guitars with fantastic tone including Tal Farlow, Jim Hall, Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis, Jonathan Kreisberg, Pat Metheny, George Benson just to name a few. And many wonderful recordings have been made with carved solid top guitars by players such as Johnny Smith, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Eddie Diehl, Oscar Moore, John Collins.

The question is to figure out what representative sets of tones you like before deciding which way to go. An awful lot of classic jazz guitar tone has been achieved on plywood guitars like the Gibson ES-175 and the ES-350; in fact, I would argue that most of what people think of as a "jazz guitar tone" has been achieved on those kinds of instruments.

If you are talking strictly about playing acoustically, then it is more generally true that solid wood carved instruments are usually going to sound better. But there are even exceptions there. A great laminate guitar may very well sound better acoustically than a mediocre solid carved top guitar

[deacon Mark]

Acoustic guitars by design and are supposed to be heard in the environment and right in the room. Otherwise, is it not exactly the same.

[Flowboy]

Yes, again that makes buying online more tricky than just bent necks. Without hearing or playing oneself, it is pot luck.
I have been lucky. I've bought 2 solid top acoustics online in the last 10 years. An Avalon which is sublime & I risked the cracked neck, knowing I can repair it, since it was less
than 1/4 of new price for a Luthier build. The other I got for its wider neck, a Lakeland. It's pretty good, doesn't sing like the Avalon but I'm still getting used to it. I don't think the previous owner used it much at all. That was about 1/2 new
price. These are std flat tops I was able to research & the sellers were genuine enthusiasts, not dealers in antique exotica. It's quite different with old archtops, or seems so. I could easily end up with a great or a terrible sounding guitar!
Fortunately I've just found someone local with a Roger so I hope to get to try that in the next week or so. It'll be a good starting point

[Flowboy]

I just read the Rickenbacker FrankenRogerstein ( or whatever it was called!) thread.
Very nice clip of someone playing a Rogers German carve (junior model?)
It gives a very clear idea of both acoustic & amplified tone, albeit with a non Rogers, (modern?) pu.

I've watched several others & became somewhat despairing of hearing the actual guitar. The players all seemed more rock oriented, so the amps are distorting, sometimes with effects pedals & they don't mic the guitar acoustically.

I'm quite fond of, is it Arv Garrison's (?) tone in C Parkers classic bebop sextet recordings. The guitar has that woody, little top end, short sustain kind of sound. I always felt this was to do with the recording tech as well as guitars of that time & it may be that were you in the room the guitar would sound brighter & more like the above Roger recording. I always assumed he would be playing a big gibson, with some kind of early pickup & amp
I've never seen any pics.
With all those bright horns & piano, that muted tone makes an EQ contrast in the mix but mostly when the horns are blaring it's lost.