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On the day they changed from the patent applied for sticker to the patent number + the tailpiece #, were both pickups of the same construction?
Originally Posted by John A.
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01-24-2024 06:54 PM
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According to many self-proclaimed internet experts, yes. I'm only a self-proclaimed copy and paster of self-proclaimed internet experts, though, so don't take what I say as definitive. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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The guy who used to do Norman’s Guitar of the days video said they were the same…. And he works at Gibson now! Originally Posted by John A.
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"These summon demons" as a marketing angle might have sold a few! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Having studied this thread, all has beome clear! Originally Posted by John A.
When Gibson changed from PAF to PN stickers they chucked out truck loads of the unused PAF stickered pickups and then built a totally different pickup that was rubbish.
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So funny how the guitar industry has become a fashion industry catering to basically non musicians,Lol! I doubt most people including myself,here would be able to correctly identify the various PAF’s. Let alone a 59 Seymour Duncan from the real deal.
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As good a theory as any in the absence actual information. I'm a big fan of MSU. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Not truckloads, just some boxes in the back of a truck. The rest of the truckload was other unwanted stuff. Dump runs were not unusual, as you can imagine.
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Here's (purportedly) the real thing. Vintage 1959 Gibson Double Black Long Magnet PAF Pickup 8.03k | Reverb
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6K wow! I have not kept up. Some years back, i was restoring a 1963 ES-175 that had later T-tops when I got it. That guitar would have had early patent sticker pickups when new, so That was what I was after. I bought three for $1,000 (without covers), sold one for $500 and I bought a couple of vintage covers for about $300. They sounded great and (except for the wire used) were identical to a late PAF. When I went to sell that guitar, it was apparent that the best choice was to pull those pickups and sell the guitar with something else (I chose a set of 57 Classics). I ended up selling the pickups for $1500. I can say that they sounded better than any modern pickup that I have heard from Gibson, Duncan or any boutique maker. There was warmth along with clear note definition. But you can get very close (good enough for me) for far less. If people want the real thing and can afford the going rate, good for them. I would bet that these new pickups will not get you the same sound as the real thing. But they also cost less than the real thing. Originally Posted by Avery Roberts
Lucky for me, a 57 Classic, 490R or a Duncan 59 will work just fine. YMMV
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My 1957 ES 175 DN, which is in principal a working man’s guitar keeps going up in value because of its attractive first year PAFs. Meanwhile my top of the line L5 CESs have “lowly” 57 classics which also sound fantastic. Do they sound the same? No. Would I replace the 57 classic for a vintage PAF in my L5s? Also no. The 57 classics have a darker, rounder, bolder tone than vintage PAFs but that makes them the perfect match for certain guitars. It’s all about matching parts. Hence it is always a surprise to me that people go crazy after one type of pickup or another. You don’t know how that pickup will sound in your guitar, are you really willing to spend $1k just to find out?
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I've never had the opportunity to try a rewound vintage pickup, but if it's anything like my experience with reconed vintage speakers, I'd believe the "the magic is in the magnets" theory. I've tried a lot of modern speakers and very few of them compare favorably to vintage Jensens or some of the finer CTS speakers, even if they've been reconed.
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I don't have a problem with what Gibson does these days. They have a range of price points and, like any business, if you have a market that will pay crazy $$$ then you should ensure they have product available.
I get sick of their Les Paul marketing - as the guitar that built rock'n'roll, which is odd considering they were so unpopular they went out of production in 1960. And if you look at the Woodstock movie, very few major players used LPs. Even their "LP Legends" like Clapton only used the LP for about 2 years in a 60-year career. But that's all just marketing hype.
Full disclosure: I have 2 Gibsons, a 335 and a LP 60s Tribute Goldtop, so I'm not rabidly anti-Gibson.
Nobody would expect Toyota to stop making the Lexus just because more people bought the basic Corolla.
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That’s not why they stopped production from ‘61-68. Les Paul’s endorsement contract was up in ‘61 and he was in the middle of an expensive divorce. He ended the Gibson deal because the more money he would predictably make going forward, the more Mary Ford would have gotten in the divorce. Originally Posted by Banksia
It’s true LP sales were low - I think they only made / sold about 1500 from the first ‘burst “LP Standard” introduced at NAMM 1958 until the end of production in 1960. But Gibson’s introduction of the SG was the other factor in the break in LP production. Despite popular belief, Les Paul didn’t hate it and later said that it wasn’t a bad guitar. But when Clapton joined Mayall, he bought an LP standard and the demand for them soared.
I don’t think the LP built rock ‘n roll. In fact, many of the early icons played hollow guitars or Fenders. There were as many Gibson archtops in early rock as there were LPs. But there’s little truth in advertising.
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When I was in hi-skool, our band was rehearsing one fine afternoon, in a gymnasium. Spring, so the doors were open and the air was sweet. Our sound travelled outside. One inebriated old gentleman strolled in. He asked if we could tune his guitar. Annoyed, we ignored him. He persisted and so the only way to please him was to acquiesce (he was drunk and annoying).
He came back with......a very beat up Gold Les Paul. The year this occurred in was 1966. It had hum buckers, I remember the white surrounds around tarnished metal pickups.
I took hold of it and plugged it in to the amp. It was so much heavier than any guitar I had played, annoyingly so!
And LOUD!!!!! Holy crap! What a beast. I didn't know what to do except tune it and send it on its way. He left.
In 1972, I was gigging, had some bucks, and listening to all the great rockers then. You know I went looking for that guy and his guitar, ( it had to be a'57) with a nice trade guitar and some cash. Lost opportunity, and I fear - lost guitar.
Sigh........I understand how it inspired R'n'R, at least some of it.
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What more do you need?
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Meanwhile, here's what a real deal pair of 59s PAFs sounds. Hark, they found yet another one under the bed! I think the Custombuckers sound much better. Who knows? Someone may find the truckload that Pete Moreno threw away one day. Maybe someone rescued them from the dumpster when Pete's back was turned...
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