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Point-to-Point
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01-17-2024 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by icr
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Here's the '57 Custom Champ. Not a complicated amp!
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And here's a 1955 Champ (5D1)
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I have one of the princeton reverb II s, that I think were the last production point to point, or strip board built fender amps. It pretty good if you don't use the pull knob distortion features. With the presence and mid controls, 12" speaker, you can get a real decent clean out of it. Then throw in cheap flat iron fuzz and a shakey jimi and get some hendrixy tone too.
Last edited by Brian859; 01-17-2024 at 09:18 PM.
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I too have a PRII. I use the gain control occasionally, to add a little colour, but it is clearly not designed for overdrive. Besides the presence and mid, the boost and bright controls are useful for shaping tones.
Here is an interior, though not mine.
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1966 Gibson 'Guitars & Amplifiers' Catalog >> Vintage Guitar and Bass
Here's the 1966 Gibson catalog. The amps look awesome. They were decent, too.
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I also have the Princeton Reverb II, after owning a Super Champ and a Concert from the era. I like the PR II best but the Concert was magnificent. Heavy and loud but what a wonderful sound with 2 10's. It was a "smaller Twin" but a beefier Vibrolux Reverb.
All of them required some dial twisting to get a decent OD tone. It's there to a degree but not what you would get from some pedals. Since I don't use much OD, the amp is perfect for me. I do know now how to kick up the OD if desired, The PRII is very versatile in the tone shaping area.
Speaker matching to the amps is also beneficial.
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Robot-produced electronics exist. Your TV, for example. SMD components are designed to be fed by machine onto PCBs, and are then wave -soldered. Generally SMD stuff isn’t designed to handle tube amp voltages, otherwise you would see it in cheap amps. I don’t know how Fender does it in their Mexican plant where the Hot Rods are built, but I do know of one well-known smaller manufacturer (of fairly expensive amps) where the founder’s wife loads the boards by hand, and they are wave-soldered the next day. I’m not sure how you would machine-load filter caps, but it’s probably possible. If anybody did it, Fender would do it.
You can see true point-to-point wiring in old tube multi-band radios from the 50s. Frightening rat’s nests. I have a top-of-the-line Nordmende (German) from 1958 which can curl your toes when you look at the wiring.
There’s nothing wrong with PCBs, and they have no inherent disadvantages when done right. Hand wired can be done very badly, and I’ve seen expensive hand-wired “boutique” amps that I would never trust.
Leo’s big secret was building a good-sounding, reliable, robust, consistent amp that could be easily repaired by your local TV/Radio shop and didn’t cost a fortune. It wasn’t the circuits, which were basically standard designs. There are reports that Gibson used to buy Fender amps, take them apart and analyze what they were, but they missed the point completely. With Gibson amps it’s a crap shoot if your example just happens to match the published schematic, and the construction issues have been mentioned. They did do a lot of interesting things though. I always wanted a GA-17, but have never found one.
I wish them good luck with the new amps. Mesa certainly knows how to do it - their amps are a good example of how to do PCB construction correctly.
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The horror, the horror.
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Older Fender amp wiring was actually called eyelet board constructions as opposed to older Marshall's turret board constructions.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
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I worked in a pcb, smt supplier last year. That board above is sparsely populated and the components are huge. You can put 300+ top and bottom with something the size of a silver dollar. The machines that do those pick and place are very expensive. I made good money working there and thats about all I liked about it.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
And (this was my impression before I‘ve seen the horror picture) I think they sound pretty boring and by far nothing special. Compared to real handbuilt AND handwired amps, SWART for example, darn expensive.
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Its going to be a wild year marketing wise if we continue on the current trajectory...
Gibson calls what we see in the photo "handwired".
Meanwhile PRS literally says "everything that touches the string is God" and tries to sell me new tuning machines "to open up the vowel sound of the guitar".
My oh my, they must all be really desperate to move some new product again after Covid.
Related: I'm really interested in how this new Gibson amp sells. I am not sure that the market is in need of another product like this, but who knows?
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Originally Posted by Litterick
And a junk jensen speaker too. No wonder they sound like a fart at max volume.
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
Last edited by Stefan Eff; 01-19-2024 at 02:38 PM.
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Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
I'm sure for most people they would be fine but for most people a cheap solid state practice amp and a squier strat are also good enough so I guess it depends on your personal standards, taste, and power handling needs. The first thing I do with a reissue Jensen like that is find someone who needs a free speaker, lol.
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
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John you're spot on.
Manually "connecting" PCB's whether it's via connectors or solder is NOT "hand wiring" :-)
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Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
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At least they use an Apem power switch, even if it is SPST. I don’t like PCB- mounted tube sockets. But they forgot to ask me.
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Originally Posted by stevo58
If the tubes are mounted horizontally as in the pic, the mass of the tube and socket will put stress not only on the tube pin solder connections but also on the PCB lands with the slightest of jarring. They're very likely to give way after continued setting the amp on its feet or wheels. If they're mounted vertically on a PCB, they're less likely to break free from handling but an amp tipping over onto its back or face is deadly also.
I've repaired quite a few amp PCB's using mesh wire soldered to lands / pins after scraping off the resist etch coating.
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…to me those amps look a lot like crap.
Itching for a Fender, which one?
Today, 11:34 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos