Gibson back in the amp business

[GuyBoden]

Point-to-Point

[ruger9]

Most all amps are hand wired. I don't see any robots doing the wiring at fender in 2015 in this picture. Does any one know of any robot wired amps?
Attachment 108023

In amp circles, "hand wired" means no PCB, basically. Just like the post above says. If Gibson is putting "hand wired" on their chassis, while technically true from a certain perspective, it does not jive with today's usage of the term, which is used to differentiate PCB construction and point-to-point or turret board construction.

[omphalopsychos]

Point-to-Point

That is what is known as stripboard construction, not point to point FYI.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Here's the '57 Custom Champ. Not a complicated amp!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

And here's a 1955 Champ (5D1)

[Brian859]

I have one of the princeton reverb II s, that I think were the last production point to point, or strip board built fender amps. It pretty good if you don't use the pull knob distortion features. With the presence and mid controls, 12" speaker, you can get a real decent clean out of it. Then throw in cheap flat iron fuzz and a shakey jimi and get some hendrixy tone too.

[Litterick]

I too have a PRII. I use the gain control occasionally, to add a little colour, but it is clearly not designed for overdrive. Besides the presence and mid, the boost and bright controls are useful for shaping tones.

Here is an interior, though not mine.

[Marty Grass]

1966 Gibson 'Guitars & Amplifiers' Catalog >> Vintage Guitar and Bass

Here's the 1966 Gibson catalog. The amps look awesome. They were decent, too.

[Jimmy Mack]

I also have the Princeton Reverb II, after owning a Super Champ and a Concert from the era. I like the PR II best but the Concert was magnificent. Heavy and loud but what a wonderful sound with 2 10's. It was a "smaller Twin" but a beefier Vibrolux Reverb.

All of them required some dial twisting to get a decent OD tone. It's there to a degree but not what you would get from some pedals. Since I don't use much OD, the amp is perfect for me. I do know now how to kick up the OD if desired, The PRII is very versatile in the tone shaping area.

Speaker matching to the amps is also beneficial.

[stevo58]

Robot-produced electronics exist. Your TV, for example. SMD components are designed to be fed by machine onto PCBs, and are then wave -soldered. Generally SMD stuff isn’t designed to handle tube amp voltages, otherwise you would see it in cheap amps. I don’t know how Fender does it in their Mexican plant where the Hot Rods are built, but I do know of one well-known smaller manufacturer (of fairly expensive amps) where the founder’s wife loads the boards by hand, and they are wave-soldered the next day. I’m not sure how you would machine-load filter caps, but it’s probably possible. If anybody did it, Fender would do it.

You can see true point-to-point wiring in old tube multi-band radios from the 50s. Frightening rat’s nests. I have a top-of-the-line Nordmende (German) from 1958 which can curl your toes when you look at the wiring.

There’s nothing wrong with PCBs, and they have no inherent disadvantages when done right. Hand wired can be done very badly, and I’ve seen expensive hand-wired “boutique” amps that I would never trust.

Leo’s big secret was building a good-sounding, reliable, robust, consistent amp that could be easily repaired by your local TV/Radio shop and didn’t cost a fortune. It wasn’t the circuits, which were basically standard designs. There are reports that Gibson used to buy Fender amps, take them apart and analyze what they were, but they missed the point completely. With Gibson amps it’s a crap shoot if your example just happens to match the published schematic, and the construction issues have been mentioned. They did do a lot of interesting things though. I always wanted a GA-17, but have never found one.

I wish them good luck with the new amps. Mesa certainly knows how to do it - their amps are a good example of how to do PCB construction correctly.

[Litterick]

The horror, the horror.

[GuyBoden]

That is what is known as stripboard construction, not point to point FYI.

Yes, you are correct, it's not point-to-point wiring, that is where all the individual components are wired together without a board.

Older Fender amp wiring was actually called eyelet board constructions as opposed to older Marshall's turret board constructions.

[ruger9]

The horror, the horror.

Ain't nuthin' hand-wired about that. Shame shame shame, Gibson. But for the price, what did you expect?

[Brian859]

I worked in a pcb, smt supplier last year. That board above is sparsely populated and the components are huge. You can put 300+ top and bottom with something the size of a silver dollar. The machines that do those pick and place are very expensive. I made good money working there and thats about all I liked about it.

[Stefan Eff]

The horror, the horror.

I didn’t expect such a cheap construction. The heat of the tubes will burn that board pretty soon. PCB isn‘t a bad thing per se, but this is really awkward. And I don‘t get what the hell they call that „handwired“. Maybe the hot glue is smeared between the parts by hand.

And (this was my impression before I‘ve seen the horror picture) I think they sound pretty boring and by far nothing special. Compared to real handbuilt AND handwired amps, SWART for example, darn expensive.

[Schwoop]

Its going to be a wild year marketing wise if we continue on the current trajectory...

Gibson calls what we see in the photo "handwired".
Meanwhile PRS literally says "everything that touches the string is God" and tries to sell me new tuning machines "to open up the vowel sound of the guitar".

My oh my, they must all be really desperate to move some new product again after Covid.

Related: I'm really interested in how this new Gibson amp sells. I am not sure that the market is in need of another product like this, but who knows?

[DawgBone]

The horror, the horror.

And a junk jensen speaker too. No wonder they sound like a fart at max volume.

[Stefan Eff]

And a junk jensen speaker too. No wonder they sound like a fart at max volume.

Why is the Jensen speaker junk?

[DawgBone]

Why is the Jensen speaker junk?

Well, not all Jensens are junk but all the old school Jensens I've tried flub out at high volume because they are gonna blow under at those kind of volumes so I don't care for them. Listen to the clips of the amp cranked up, the speaker is a farty mess while the OD sound is kind of typical of an old Gibson. It would benefit from a better speaker if you are going to crank it.

I'm sure for most people they would be fine but for most people a cheap solid state practice amp and a squier strat are also good enough so I guess it depends on your personal standards, taste, and power handling needs. The first thing I do with a reissue Jensen like that is find someone who needs a free speaker, lol.

[Stefan Eff]

Well, not all Jensens are junk but all the old school Jensens I've tried flub out at high volume because they are gonna blow under at those kind of volumes so I don't care for them. Listen to the clips of the amp cranked up, the speaker is a farty mess while the OD sound is kind of typical of an old Gibson. It would benefit from a better speaker if you are going to crank it.

I'm sure for most people they would be fine but for most people a cheap solid state practice amp and a squier strat are also good enough so I guess it depends on your personal standards, taste, and power handling needs. The first thing I do with a reissue Jensen like that is find someone who needs a free speaker, lol.

It‘s all personal taste, but I think Jensen Alnicos are made for clean tones at lower volumes up to the edge of breakup. They‘re no rock speakers, so to say. But they let your notes bloom with rich harmonics and their typical sparkling yet warm highs, if you play em more or less clean. More organic and dynamic than most other speakers, that’s at least my experience. They need a lot of break in time to open up and they love singlecoils. They’re everything but Junk, at least to my ears. You can find them also in some xpensive smaller boutique amps, must be for a reason.

[GNAPPI]

John you're spot on.

Manually "connecting" PCB's whether it's via connectors or solder is NOT "hand wiring" :-)

[DawgBone]

It‘s all personal taste, but I think Jensen Alnicos are made for clean tones at lower volumes up to the edge of breakup. They‘re no rock speakers, so to say. But they let your notes bloom with rich harmonics and their typical sparkling yet warm highs, if you play em more or less clean. More organic and dynamic than most other speakers, that’s at least my experience. They need a lot of break in time to open up and they love singlecoils. They’re everything but Junk, at least to my ears. You can find them also in some xpensive smaller boutique amps, must be for a reason.

Don't worry. Juan will be along shortly to tell me that JBL's suck and that I don't know what I"m talking about haha. There isn't a lot of rhyme and reason sometimes when it comes to finding a good speaker/amp combination. I would love to throw a set of the Jensen Blackbird alnicos in the Twin for a lap around the track with their 100 watt power handling. There are so many nice speakers out there now by pretty much every maker. WGS alnico 100. Celestion redbacks. Vintage and new EV's. Vintage JBL's. I recently picked up an EV Force 12 for cheap. I am biased towards high power handling with big magnets since I still have the back to tote it and they can take the abuse.

[stevo58]

At least they use an Apem power switch, even if it is SPST. I don’t like PCB- mounted tube sockets. But they forgot to ask me.

[GNAPPI]

At least they use an Apem power switch, even if it is SPST. I don’t like PCB- mounted tube sockets. But they forgot to ask me.

+1

If the tubes are mounted horizontally as in the pic, the mass of the tube and socket will put stress not only on the tube pin solder connections but also on the PCB lands with the slightest of jarring. They're very likely to give way after continued setting the amp on its feet or wheels. If they're mounted vertically on a PCB, they're less likely to break free from handling but an amp tipping over onto its back or face is deadly also.

I've repaired quite a few amp PCB's using mesh wire soldered to lands / pins after scraping off the resist etch coating.

[Stefan Eff]

…to me those amps look a lot like crap.