Need some help finding wiring schematic for modifying ES!

[mr quick]

Hello all,

my beloved ES is currently at the doctor's with some uneven frets and a general service since it's been nearly 5 years since last time.
For this occassion, I decided to finally pull the trigger on a long-standing dream of adding a strat pickup between the humbuckers. This will require a new switching system.

Since the guitar already has a single volume and tone knob, and I want to keep it that way, I figured the best course of action would be to have them be master vol/tone and then have individual on-off switches for each pickup. This feels the most intuitive to me.



I found this image online of a different guitar to show what type of setup I'm talking about.
Any takers? I'm practically illiterate when searching for this kind of stuff, as the intangibility of electronical wiring mystifies me.

[sgosnell]

Here, Let Me Google That For You! Teach People How to Google

[icr]

What kind of guitar? If you meant Gibson ES-175, last I looked the schematics were no longer on the Gibson web site (some one can show me wrong, maybe my browser was not supported).

Anyway, I was able to retrieve most of the schematics from the Way Back Machine.

This is the ES-175:

ES335-ES175.pdf

[mr quick]

Here, Let Me Google That For You! Teach People How to Google

Your snark is duly noted. I mentioned I don't even know what to search for since I know nothing about the subject, but it's also further obfuscated by English not being my first language... I obviously would just google it, as I continue trying to, but I'm at a dead end and struggling to understand what I'm looking at. I'll make sure never to be so foolish as to ask experienced people for some help with something I know absolutely nothing about in the future!

What kind of guitar? If you meant Gibson ES-175, last I looked the schematics were no longer on the Gibson web site (some one can show me wrong, maybe my browser was not supported).

Anyway, I was able to retrieve most of the schematics from the Way Back Machine.

This is the ES-175:

ES335-ES175.pdf

Thanks for the effort, but the electronics are already heavily modified so I don't need the original wiring diagram. I've tried googling "HSH guitar 3 on/off switches wiring diagram" but I haven't found anything yet, and I also struggle with understanding what makes something an actual diagram/schematic, and not just an illustration. This is like trying to find a research paper in a new language I've never spoken!

[tpandela]

Hello all,

my beloved ES is currently at the doctor's with some uneven frets and a general service since it's been nearly 5 years since last time.
For this occassion, I decided to finally pull the trigger on a long-standing dream of adding a strat pickup between the humbuckers. This will require a new switching system.

Since the guitar already has a single volume and tone knob, and I want to keep it that way, I figured the best course of action would be to have them be master vol/tone and then have individual on-off switches for each pickup. This feels the most intuitive to me.



I found this image online of a different guitar to show what type of setup I'm talking about.
Any takers? I'm practically illiterate when searching for this kind of stuff, as the intangibility of electronical wiring mystifies me.

I searched using AI and found this resource. It needs to be tweaked as it has 2 volume controls and a tone but you're in the ballpark I think. Maybe refine the search terms, I used ChatGPT and this was my search:

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.894)]picture of the wiring of a 3 pickup electric guitar using 3 mini switches to turn each pickup on and off[/COLOR]

picture of the wiring of a 3 pickup electric guitar using 3 mini switches to turn each pickup on and off - Search

[hotpepper01]

That kind of setup (2HB and a SC in the middle) was used by Alvin Lee (Ten Years After) on his famous big red guitar. May be you can find any info online about the way his guitar was wired when you search with Alvin Lee or Big Red...
http://alvinlee.com/equipment.html

[sgosnell]

I didn't mean to be overly snarky, but you didn't provide much to go on. There are many ways to wire this configuration, and they all can work. Guitar wiring is not a precise science, because there are so many ways to do the wiring, and they almost all work, but with different advantages and disadvantages. I can only point you toward a broad listing of diagrams without knowing your wants more exactly. You mentioned the possibility of separate switches, but just a possibility. That's one way, and shown in one of the diagrams, but there are many others. Trying to modify a guitar yourself without knowing more than you seem to know is a very good way to ruin it. If you can be more specific about what you want, and why, then I can probably be more specific about finding a diagram to follow.

[garybaldy]

What kind of guitar? If you meant Gibson ES-175, last I looked the schematics were no longer on the Gibson web site (some one can show me wrong, maybe my browser was not supported).

Anyway, I was able to retrieve most of the schematics from the Way Back Machine.

This is the ES-175:

ES335-ES175.pdf

Heaven forbid if he wants to add a middle single coil to a 175!

[Cunamara]

Here you go. Ignore the silliness around the tone potentiometer, that can just be wired as per normal. it makes no difference that the neck pickup here is a single coil, the wiring flow would still be the same. Although, if you're going to have your tech do it, wouldn't that be his or her job to figure out? Or are you going to plunge in and do it yourself? That's what I would do, but I find this kind of thing very satisfying to do.

Since you are mixing humbuckers and a single coil, however, you're going to run into a tone management issue. The single coil will sound best looking at a 250K circuit (a la Fender) and the humbuckers will sound best looking at a 500K circuit (a la Gibson). There is a way to add a resistor into the circuit for the single coil pickup to address that. The resistor would go from the hot terminal of the single coil switch to ground, which is usually the back of the volume pot. The exact value of the resistor will be to taste, but probably somewhere around 220K. You can find some information about this on the wildepickups.com website under the wiring link, looking at the Telecaster wiring option; lindyfralin.com also has good information about this in his section on wiring.

For what it's worth, I would recommend using one of the Wilde L280 Stratocaster pickups in the middle position; they are hum-canceling but sound Stratty. I have their pickups in three guitars and have been delighted by them (L90 PAF size humbuckers, L280 Telecaster and Strat pickups and Microcoil Telecaster pickups).

[icr]

Thanks for the effort, but the electronics are already heavily modified so I don't need the original wiring diagram. I've tried googling "HSH guitar 3 on/off switches wiring diagram" but I haven't found anything yet, and I also struggle with understanding what makes something an actual diagram/schematic, and not just an illustration. This is like trying to find a research paper in a new language I've never spoken!

Ok, I think I understand. You would wire each pickup to its own switch and the hot from the switches goes to the volume pot and the tone pot. Wire the two pots either "50s or Modern" and then wire to the jack.

[mr quick]

I didn't mean to be overly snarky, but you didn't provide much to go on. There are many ways to wire this configuration, and they all can work. Guitar wiring is not a precise science, because there are so many ways to do the wiring, and they almost all work, but with different advantages and disadvantages. I can only point you toward a broad listing of diagrams without knowing your wants more exactly. You mentioned the possibility of separate switches, but just a possibility. That's one way, and shown in one of the diagrams, but there are many others. Trying to modify a guitar yourself without knowing more than you seem to know is a very good way to ruin it. If you can be more specific about what you want, and why, then I can probably be more specific about finding a diagram to follow.

This is a big part of the problem, and why I'm struggling to find what I'm looking for; I don't know what information to provide to optimalize my search!
Here's all I know from my end, in terms of what I want:

1 Master volume (push-pull split for neck humbucker) - This is what is already installed
1 Master tone (push-pull split for bridge humbucker) - Ditto on above
1 on/off switch neck humbucker
1 on/off switch middle single coil pickup
1 on/of switch bridge humbucker

... In essence, omitting the 3-way switch and substituting it for individual pickup switches. This instead of a 5-way switch to allow me to use all 3 pickups OR bridge and neck together.
While I was studying I had my dad's James Tyler Studio Elite which let me use all 3 at the same time, and it was such a delightful sound for chord-melody guitar.

All I've found is 5-way and strat stuff with 3 potmeters, and it's hard for me to know whether I can provide it since I'm such a beginner on this.

I want to clarify that I won't be doing the work, a luthier I hold in very high regard will. He had prepared a couple of schematics for it but since I rejected them he asked that I find what I need myself.

Here you go. Ignore the silliness around the tone potentiometer, that can just be wired as per normal. it makes no difference that the neck pickup here is a single coil, the wiring flow would still be the same. Although, if you're going to have your tech do it, wouldn't that be his or her job to figure out? Or are you going to plunge in and do it yourself? That's what I would do, but I find this kind of thing very satisfying to do.

Since you are mixing humbuckers and a single coil, however, you're going to run into a tone management issue. The single coil will sound best looking at a 250K circuit (a la Fender) and the humbuckers will sound best looking at a 500K circuit (a la Gibson). There is a way to add a resistor into the circuit for the single coil pickup to address that. The resistor would go from the hot terminal of the single coil switch to ground, which is usually the back of the volume pot. The exact value of the resistor will be to taste, but probably somewhere around 220K. You can find some information about this on the wildepickups.com website under the wiring link, looking at the Telecaster wiring option; lindyfralin.com also has good information about this in his section on wiring.

For what it's worth, I would recommend using one of the Wilde L280 Stratocaster pickups in the middle position; they are hum-canceling but sound Stratty. I have their pickups in three guitars and have been delighted by them (L90 PAF size humbuckers, L280 Telecaster and Strat pickups and Microcoil Telecaster pickups).

Thanks, and yes, to expand on what I mentioned above, he had prepared schematics for how he's usually done it, but since I rejected those ideas and wanted to do it a very particular way, he asked that I provide schematics. I think he might have underestimated just how incompetent I would be...! I can hardly play the damned thing, let alone this!

I will try and send some of the suggestions that have been both here and by friends and see if we can distill what I need from that. The search continues, of course.
I'm very much looking forward to getting the guitar back. The luthier is held in high regard in this country and all work I've ever seen done by him both on my own and others' guitars has been outstanding. And, he's a man of my own heart who has a more... tactile relationship with the work. I think the truth in getting incredibly low strings lays beyond measurements and should be done by feel alone.

Thanks all for being so helpful.

[John A.]

How about leaving the existing electronics as is and adding just an on/off switch for the middle pickup (wired in parallel)?

I think the simpler, safer, cheaper, and more satisfying solution would be to buy a something like a used CV Squier strat. If we’re talking about ES-139 you’ve written about here, I can see cutting another pickup hole in that ending badly.

[mr quick]

How about leaving the existing electronics as is and adding just an on/off switch for the middle pickup (wired in parallel)?

I think the simpler, safer, cheaper, and more satisfying solution would be to buy a something like a used CV Squier strat. If we’re talking about ES-139 you’ve written about here, I can see cutting another pickup hole in that ending badly.

I considered that, but that wouldn't let me use the middle alone without adding another volume potmeter or something to that effect.

Indeed, it would be cheaper and safer to buy some strat-type guitar, but if I play my absolute best on this one guitar, I don't see any reason to leave out tone options. I simply don't feel comfortable on a strat and I sound terrible, and I also want to have as few guitars as possible. Therefore it seems logical to me!

It's too late now, anyway. It's miles upon miles away for the express purpose of having a hole cut into it. It's my "forever" guitar and it will change with me.

[John A.]

I considered that, but that wouldn't let me use the middle alone without adding another volume potmeter or something to that effect.

Indeed, it would be cheaper and safer to buy some strat-type guitar, but if I play my absolute best on this one guitar, I don't see any reason to leave out tone options. I simply don't feel comfortable on a strat and I sound terrible, and I also want to have as few guitars as possible. Therefore it seems logical to me!

It's too late now, anyway. It's miles upon miles away for the express purpose of having a hole cut into it. It's my "forever" guitar and it will change with me.

I hope it works out.

[mr quick]

Thanks, me too. I'll see if I can muster up the courage to post some soundbites once I get it back. I'm not a big fan of my own playing nor playing in front of people, especially on a forum filled with as much wonderful talent as here.

[mr quick]

There is officially no turning back!

[mr quick]

Apologies for the triple-post all, but I just received word that the guitar is finished!



To clear up some confusion, it seems that I misunderstood the luthier's request when it came to schematics, as he'd found the solution himself. The closest I found was yours @Cunamara. Thanks!

The pickup ring is rosewood because I'm generally rosewood-crazy and have a house full of the stuff in old MCM furniture, and I thought the white cover was a fun contrast, though he'll give me a black one if I want to change it out.

This is so very exciting!

[mr quick]

To those interested few, here is a short clip I made when I picked the guitar up in january.