New amp advice??

[NYC]

I currently have a 1964 twin reverb that is great, but a little bit too much horsepower for the home playing that I do mostly and also dare I say too much head room. I'd really like something that is lower wattage, that I can reach an edge of breakup tone and hit with a tube screamer with light distortion as I like to play with a little bit. Or, even a master volume amp - is what I'm thinking.

I've considered quite a few amps - currently eyeing the Mesa Boogie Mark V: 35. It seems like it does quite a bit and I think it must take pedals ok if I want to put a tube screamer in front of it or a wah.

I also considered a princeton reverb or a similar boutique offering but no master means i can't dial in that edge of break up tone and I think it may just be a smaller version of what I have now that is getting boring with the Twin Reverb.

Anyone have any other suggestions? Or, experience with the Mark V to encourage or discourage?

[medblues]

What's your budget ?

[NYC]

What's your budget ?

5k and below

[NYC]

What's your budget ?

I'd prefer a head/cabinet combo or at least if I did the boogie that is the plan. 5k and down is the budget

[medblues]

If weight is not an issue (40 lbs), Carr Rambler is hard to beat, there are lower wattage and lighter weight Carr models with less headroom but the Rambler is a classic. You can control master volume and drive level from the tone stack. Reverb and the tremolo are built in and fantastic.

Blues Junior has a master volume and other than some people describing it as boxy, it might check your boxes. I had one with BillM mods and it was not boxy. But I wanted an effect loop so I traded it with a Fender George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe which also has a drive channel with master volume but is 43 lbs and 40 watts so not too far from the Twin Reverb.

As a novelty, if you like the Tube Screamer sound, Ibanez had a 5-watter with a built in Tube Screamer.

I am presuming you do not want to go down the digital Fender Tonemaster path.

[wintermoon]

the PR you mentioned is how I'd go and w a budget like 5K you could buy a real spiffy original and have $ left over.
If you think that's still too much amp maybe a Vibro Champ.

[omphalopsychos]

Try a deluxe or vibroluxe.

[Navdeep_Singh]

The best amp on the market, head and shoulders better than anything else out ther, in a head and powered speaker format, is the Buscarino Chameleon amp system. John doesn’t just make great guitars. Two channel, XLR input, one of the channels is for a more clean/acoustic sound, and the other has a tube preamp to get a more electric Fender sound. It’s ideal for both jazz boxes and for acoustic guitars

Check out Taylor Roberts playing on his Chameleon.

[Alter]

With a 5k budget i would also buy a good attenuator, so a number of amps would be suitable. Deluxe reverb is a classic solution for a fender sound. Boogies are great, i have had three of them, but they are not a Fender sound, they are tight and have this thing in the middle register that works great live and with a band, but if you are after a Fender sound, they will never sound exactly alike.

[Greywolf]

I have 3 Mesa's and love them , they are bullet proof and you can really dial in the tone.

That being said , my favorite amp is my Doug Sewell hand built PRS DG30 . El 84's , it's David Grissom's signature and it is flat out delicious . It's the only one left in thier line that's still hand built , hand vetted component by component. The back ported 2x 12 sounds better than my 4x12 Marshall . They made a 50w version , but the 30 is the sweetheart .

I have a paisley 50w Blue Sierra too .. much more plexi

[jorgemg1984]

The best amp on the market, head and shoulders better than anything else out ther, in a head and powered speaker format, is the Buscarino Chameleon amp system. John doesn’t just make great guitars. Two channel, XLR input, one of the channels is for a more clean/acoustic sound, and the other has a tube preamp to get a more electric Fender sound. It’s ideal for both jazz boxes and for acoustic guitars

Check out Taylor Roberts playing on his Chameleon.

That amp is the exact opposite of what the OP wants. It sounds nothing like a Twin and never breeaks up.

[jorgemg1984]

I currently have a 1964 twin reverb that is great, but a little bit too much horsepower for the home playing that I do mostly and also dare I say too much head room. I'd really like something that is lower wattage, that I can reach an edge of breakup tone and hit with a tube screamer with light distortion as I like to play with a little bit. Or, even a master volume amp - is what I'm thinking.

I've considered quite a few amps - currently eyeing the Mesa Boogie Mark V: 35. It seems like it does quite a bit and I think it must take pedals ok if I want to put a tube screamer in front of it or a wah.

I also considered a princeton reverb or a similar boutique offering but no master means i can't dial in that edge of break up tone and I think it may just be a smaller version of what I have now that is getting boring with the Twin Reverb.

Anyone have any other suggestions? Or, experience with the Mark V to encourage or discourage?

I have never tried a master volume Fender, but plenty of people say when you add a master volume to a Fender it stops sounding like a Fender... No idea if it's a myth or not.

I would personally never buy a Mesa Boogie to get a Fender sound. They're great amps, but don't sound like Fenders.

The volume problem is as old as tube amps and bedroom players appeared. These amps were not made to sound good on any small room, they were made to be played loud on stages. Unfortunatelly guitarists are very conservative, but modeleres are the best way of getting the sound you want at the volume want (at the price of a farily steep learning curve). I use them to do the exact opposite of what you want - a sweet and clean Fender sound at stage volumes.

[Tal_175]

I think a well chosen pedal into a tube amp sounds better than the dirt from master volume. It's hard to beat vibro champ for low volume playing.

[John A.]

I have never tried a master volume Fender, but plenty of people say when you add a master volume to a Fender it stops sounding like a Fender... No idea if it's a myth or not.

Just installing a MV doesn’t change the basic tone of an amp. The thing with MV’s and Fenders is that with some exceptions, If you’re talking about the classic AB763-derived BF or SF Fenders and contemporaries, installing a MV doesn’t don’t really do much because the preamps are very clean, and the way the gain stages are designed you can’t really get one to push the next into distortion.

Break-up on these amps comes from pushing the power section into distortion. Adding a master volume without doing other mods (something I’ve had done) just lowers the signal level feeding the power section and highlights this kind of raspy, tinny tone that comes from diming a clean preamp. If you want singing, sustaining distortion out of these amps at lower volume, you have to mod the preamp design (a la Mesa Boogie, Dumble, etc.)

Exceptions: MV’s on Princeton Reverbs work well because they have one more gain stage than the other *.reverb amps. I’ve never seen one with an added MV, but I suspect it might work OK on a Bassman (which has a lot more preamp distortion than other Fenders). Not sure about any others off the top of my head. All of the above also mostly applies to brown/blond amps.

I would personally never buy a Mesa Boogie to get a Fender sound. They're great amps, but don't sound like Fenders.

Some can.

The volume problem is as old as tube amps and bedroom players appeared. These amps were not made to sound good on any small room, they were made to be played loud on stages. Unfortunatelly guitarists are very conservative, but modeleres are the best way of getting the sound you want at the volume want (at the price of a farily steep learning curve). I use them to do the exact opposite of what you want - a sweet and clean Fender sound at stage volumes.

I think the issue is more fundamental than this. The sensory experience of volume itself + a degree of feedback is part of the sound that people crave. You simply can’t replicate that aspect of playing through a cranked amp at bedroom volumes. You can record an amp with a great MV implementation or a modeler with a perfect speaker IR at low volume, and the sound will be almost indistinguishable from the real thing on the recording, but the experience of playing it will not. Ultimately “cranked amp at bedroom volume"’ is a contradiction in terms. The best you can hope for is an approximation.

[pingu]

an alternative is to keep
your Twin but put an ‘ox box’

OX | Amp Top Box | Universal Audio

bettween the amp and the speakers
then turn up the twin to its sweet spot
and turn down the ox box to get the required level

you get to use the amp you
dig at the volume you need ….

[wintermoon]

an alternative is to keep
your Twin but put an ‘ox box’

OX | Amp Top Box | Universal Audio

bettween the amp and the speakers
then turn up the twin to its sweet spot
and turn down the ox box to get the required level

you get to use the amp you
dig at the volume you need ….

Some people also pull 2 of the power tubes

[Navdeep_Singh]

That amp is the exact opposite of what the OP wants. It sounds nothing like a Twin and never breeaks up.

The samples posted are all clean-acoustic-jazz sounds. Yes, they don’t break up. But it has a 2nd channel that John uses to emulate the tube Fender Blackface sound. I believe it has small tubes in the pre-amp. You can do Hendrix on this amp. The more salient point is: you can cover all your bases with it: from acoustic guitar to fuzz guitar, with a focus on jazz boxes, of course. I like it-and Taylor does too—becuase it has the clearest, most pronounced bass sounds, as well. It’s great for extended range guitars, like 7 strings.

The amount of versatility you can do with this very small amp and powered cab is amazing. John hit it out of the park with this.

You’re basically getting an Acoustic Image type of clean amp and a Fender amp, with the ability to record XLR with a mic on one channel, guitar on 2nd channel, must better bass sounds than any other amp, the clarity and focused sparkle made for jazz boxes, with the ability to do fuzz guitar as well, if you want it. In the smallest footprint possible that allows you to carry guitar, amp, and powered cab comfortbaly and easily, either over your shoulder and in your hands.

John is an approachable, honest, straight forward person, as well as a master luthier. He will definitely give the OP an honest, fair assessment if his amp can do what the OP wants it to do.

[dconeill]

...1964 twin reverb that is great, but a little bit too much horsepower ... I'd really like something that is lower wattage, that I can reach an edge of breakup tone ...

A problem I see for you is that your description of what you want is extremely open-ended. Consequently you'll get recommendations all over the place. There are a zillion amps that promise high-loudness tube sound at apartment volumes, they all have their advocates, and you will hear about each and every one of them. You'll end up with no more real information than you started with.

If you can narrow your set of requirements somewhat you might get better suggestions.

[Jimmy Mack]

Princeton Reverb II. Extremely tweakable and the 12" speaker is very satisfying at low volumes, it gives a nice round tone with adequate bass for jazz, or fullness when you dial in the OD. There are several ways to tailor the OD to your liking. Those players who dismiss the OD on these probably haven't spent the time to really hone it in. But I have, and I have found many tones to suit me. The cleans (Fender) are outstanding too. Add the Mid-boost as another tool on the faceplate

Their reputation as all tube and old school tech is treasured. You'll have to find one though (used), and your budget is way more than you'll need. Get a great speaker for it - there are so many to choose from. I have the GA 64 from Eminence and love it.

And......you can add a pedal.....to increase the joy! Did I mention that it's perfect for gigging?

[Jimmy Mack]

So, is there anyone who can say that any recent Fenders can do what the PR II does? I guess they were intended to compete with Boogie's but production stopped in the 80's.

[bluejaybill]

an alternative is to keep
your Twin but put an ‘ox box’

OX | Amp Top Box | Universal Audio

bettween the amp and the speakers
then turn up the twin to its sweet spot
and turn down the ox box to get the required level

you get to use the amp you
dig at the volume you need ….

Yes, but does a twin ever even get to distortion? If that's what OP wants he might want to look at amps that will break up earlier on the dial, like a tweed amp or low power BF amp. But yes he would still require an attenuator type device. I have a Power Station that does this well. Ox's probably work better when doing direct into the computer however.

[pauln]

Some people also pull 2 of the power tubes

I would do this first; be sure the two tubes removed are either (of the four power tubes) the two inner tubes of the four, or the two outer tubes of the four - there are two tubes per each polarity of the wave form and you remove them this way to result in only one tube per polarity.

You may also exchange the 12AT7 phase inverter (splitter) in V6 for a 12AX7 to get sooner breakup with volume.

You can remove the tube for the channel you don't use; V1 is Normal, V2 is Vibrato channel. Removing the first tube from the unused channel changes to way the tube in the channel you do use operates (because they share some common circuitry) which will further provoke earlier break up. Both of these are 12AX7 so you may use the one you pull as the phase inverter above.

You can use the 12AT7 pulled from the phase inverter as your first preamp tube to get a slightly different tone as well.

If you pull two of the power tubes to get just one per side of polarity, you may correct the impedance mismatch by disconnecting one of the two speakers.

You can also plug your instrument into the no. 2 input (-6dB) to run the volume control higher...

There are a lot of ways to easily alter the Fender tube amps; you might try finding out what the combinations would sound like.

[NYC]

[QUOTE=John A.;1304758]Just installing a MV doesn’t change the basic tone of an amp. The thing with MV’s and Fenders is that with

----------------------

Can you elaborate on the detail you mentioned "a la mesa boogie, dumble and PR" as in the master volume truly driving the tubes rather than just cutting down on the signal to create a skinny breakup?

What is different about a mesa boogie or dumble for example (or specifically the mesa boogie) that allows the master volume to truly drive the tubes?

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a Mark V head and a 4x10 cab. I like the Mark V tones from what I've played on it in a shop it sounded good and I walked away from it knowing there are encyclopedia's of tone in that amp that I didnt' touch on in my 30 minutes with in in a shop.

But i'm very interested in how the MV in a mesa or a Dumble function differently (better IMO) than the MV on another contemporary amp?

The two amps im currently considering might surprise you guys but I'm really considering the Mark V 35 (with 25w and 10w) as well as a Soldano SLO30. The Soldano, not for the medal heavy tones which I have zero interest but because I love the crunch/clean tone that I hear some folks getting out of it like Clapton's older rigs and more currently Warren Haynes. I really LOVE that warren haynes tone and think it could be a cool alternative to play with alongsied the old tried and true TR.

All opinons are helpful PLEASE share if you have one.

[NYC]

I would do this first; be sure the two tubes removed are either (of the four power tubes) the two inner tubes of the four, or the two outer tubes of the four - there are two tubes per each polarity of the wave form and you remove them this way to result in only one tube per polarity.

You may also exchange the 12AT7 phase inverter (splitter) in V6 for a 12AX7 to get sooner breakup with volume.

You can remove the tube for the channel you don't use; V1 is Normal, V2 is Vibrato channel. Removing the first tube from the unused channel changes to way the tube in the channel you do use operates (because they share some common circuitry) which will further provoke earlier break up. Both of these are 12AX7 so you may use the one you pull as the phase inverter above.

You can use the 12AT7 pulled from the phase inverter as your first preamp tube to get a slightly different tone as well.

If you pull two of the power tubes to get just one per side of polarity, you may correct the impedance mismatch by disconnecting one of the two speakers.

You can also plug your instrument into the no. 2 input (-6dB) to run the volume control higher...

There are a lot of ways to easily alter the Fender tube amps; you might try finding out what the combinations would sound like.

Can you elaborate on the detail you mentioned "a la mesa boogie, dumble and PR" as in the master volume truly driving the tubes rather than just cutting down on the signal to create a skinny breakup?

What is different about a mesa boogie or dumble for example (or specifically the mesa boogie) that allows the master volume to truly drive the tubes?

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a Mark V head and a 4x10 cab. I like the Mark V tones from what I've played on it in a shop it sounded good and I walked away from it knowing there are encyclopedia's of tone in that amp that I didnt' touch on in my 30 minutes with in in a shop.

But i'm very interested in how the MV in a mesa or a Dumble function differently (better IMO) than the MV on another contemporary amp?

The two amps im currently considering might surprise you guys but I'm really considering the Mark V 35 (with 25w and 10w) as well as a Soldano SLO30. The Soldano, not for the medal heavy tones which I have zero interest but because I love the crunch/clean tone that I hear some folks getting out of it like Clapton's older rigs and more currently Warren Haynes. I really LOVE that warren haynes tone and think it could be a cool alternative to play with alongsied the old tried and true TR.

All opinons are helpful PLEASE share if you have one.

[alltunes]

Home use? 12 watts more then enough but with a built in attenuator you can get all the break up you need.

Skylark — Carr Amps