Fender Champion 20 Speaker Swap Recommends?

[Abandoneur]

Just picked up a barely used Fender Champion 20 for $90. It's such an amazing amp, I'm already contemplating a speaker upgrade, as I don't ever imagine I'd get rid of the thing.

I've seen a few things around the internets about Jensen and Celestion options ... but hoping for a first-hand recommendation or two that are jazz-tone specific.

thanks much.

[StefanoGhirardo]

I put a Jensen P8R on mine and I'm happy with it. I don't feel expert enough to give an in-depth opinion, but I'm happy with the change, even if the difference isn't as dramatic as I naively expected. Compared to the original the sound is less cutting, a little; more midrange oriented. Furthermore, the notes in the chords sound more separated, more recognizable. The Jensen needed a break-in period.
Pay attention to the screws that secure the original speaker: the counterscrews do not cut deeply into the fragile chipboard and treating them roughly can cause the wood to crumble. Be careful to unscrew and screw them gently: I didn't do it and I regret it...

[Gitterbug]

I have no first-hand experience of 8" speakers. Stefano (ciao amico!) says he's happy with the Jensen P8R replacement but expected a more "dramatic" change. The Jensen is more mid-range focused and more separating. He also warns about not damaging the apparently soft baffle with the blind nuts when making the change.

I hear nothing but praise for Eminence 820H hemp cone speaker. However, I believe it comes in a 4 ohm edition only. The Champ's original speaker is 8 ohm. Not all low wattage amps handle a 4 ohm loading. The Celestion TF 0818 might be a safer choice. With these, your combo is likely to gain weight. The Eminence weighs 1.4 kg/3.1 lb, the Celestion 2.3 kg/5.1 lb.

The Jensen P8R AlNiCo is lighter than the Eminence. It's been a Champ standard for decades. I have reason to believe that the 8" guitar speaker offering will expand and diversify in the not so distant future.

[John A.]

I have no first-hand experience of 8" speakers. Stefano (ciao amico!) says he's happy with the Jensen P8R replacement but expected a more "dramatic" change. The Jensen is more mid-range focused and more separating. He also warns about not damaging the apparently soft baffle with the blind nuts when making the change.

I hear nothing but praise for Eminence 820H hemp cone speaker. However, I believe it comes in a 4 ohm edition only. The Champ's original speaker is 8 ohm. Not all low wattage amps handle a 4 ohm loading. The Celestion TF 0818 might be a safer choice. With these, your combo is likely to gain weight. The Eminence weighs 1.4 kg/3.1 lb, the Celestion 2.3 kg/5.1 lb.

The Jensen P8R AlNiCo is lighter than the Eminence. It's been a Champ standard for decades. I have reason to believe that the 8" guitar speaker offering will expand and diversify in the not so distant future.

In this video, the guy weighs the stock Champion 20 speaker (828 grams/1.8 LB) and replaces it with a Jupiter. The sound quality in the video is terrible, so I can't really tell the difference, but at least it gives a baseline weight for the stock speaker.

[Gitterbug]

Yeah, these "special design" speakers puzzle me. Typically, they are a lot lighter (i.e. cheaper to make) than branded guitar speakers. Yet, they do the job to the extent that few people want to go through the trouble of swapping. The stock speaker of a Roland Cube 60 from around 2007 is very light and so shallow that there's no room for alternatives. As far as I recall, it sounded so good that no replacement was needed. Why are no such speakers offered on the aftermarket?

[Abandoneur]

Anybody have any experience with the Mojotone Anthem?

[John A.]

Yeah, these "special design" speakers puzzle me. Typically, they are a lot lighter (i.e. cheaper to make) than branded guitar speakers. Yet, they do the job to the extent that few people want to go through the trouble of swapping. The stock speaker of a Roland Cube 60 from around 2007 is very light and so shallow that there's no room for alternatives. As far as I recall, it sounded so good that no replacement was needed. Why are no such speakers offered on the aftermarket?

I guess whoever are OEM'ing the speakers for Fender et. al. don't perceive demand for putting these cheaper speakers out under their own brands. That and margin is probably a lot lower than on the ones they market under their own names as upgrades.

[Gitterbug]

You must be right, John. These (probably Chinese/Far East) makers may not have a name of their own in the first place. This should create an opportunity for someone to pull together the best of these, slap a sticker and start marketing. In a way, speakers are an anachronism in our digital world. But something's got to move the air to make a sound, and speakers as we know them do it best.

[pingu]

1304822[/URL]]I guess whoever are OEM'ing the speakers for Fender et. al. don't perceive demand for putting these cheaper speakers out under their own brands. That and margin is probably a lot lower than on the ones they market under their own names as upgrades.

For some reason i thought the ‘special design’ speakers were Eminence ,
can’t remember why ….

[John A.]

For some reason i thought the ‘special design’ speakers were Eminence ,
can’t remember why ….

Google no doubt has something to say about that.

[pingu]

1304849[/URL]]Google no doubt has something to say about that.

can’t see much

[TheGrandWazoo]

If it sounds great already, why change?

[John A.]

You must be right, John. These (probably Chinese/Far East) makers may not have a name of their own in the first place. This should create an opportunity for someone to pull together the best of these, slap a sticker and start marketing. In a way, speakers are an anachronism in our digital world. But something's got to move the air to make a sound, and speakers as we know them do it best.

If only someone on this forum built speaker cabinets and had connections in the world of speakers, then we might be able to clear up this little mystery. Hmmm, I wonder if there is such a person here ...

For some reason i thought the ‘special design’ speakers were Eminence ,
can’t remember why ….

If you google "Fender eminence" lots of things like this pop up:


There are also all kinds of lists of speaker manufacturer codes that allow you figure out who made which "Fender" speaker if the label doesn't say. But for these specific Champion 20 speakers, there doesn't seem to be any specific info about their origins.

If it sounds great already, why change?

I wouldn't spend another penny or add another ounce on mine because I think it's a nearly perfect achievement of good, cheap, and portable. But some people seek perfection.

[pingu]

1304205[/URL]]Just picked up a barely used Fender Champion 20 for $90. It's such an amazing amp, I'm already contemplating a speaker upgrade, as I don't ever imagine I'd get rid of the thing.

I've seen a few things around the internets about Jensen and Celestion options ... but hoping for a first-hand recommendation or two that are jazz-tone specific.

thanks much.

I’m with John A
I think the Champion 20 and 40 speakers are about right as they are ….

[Abandoneur]

If it sounds great already, why change?

This is a point that had occurred to me and, despite my natural inclination to tinker, is likely the logic that will win the day.

John A.'s point that the amp sits at the center of the Good/Cheap/Light Venn diagram is spot on as well.

I'd also be better served by spending the time practicing, rather than reading about and/or futzing with speakers. So there's that. Only time will tell if I can resist the urge to tinker, but for now ... I go practice.

[Gitterbug]

[QUOTE=John A.;1305076]If only someone on this forum built speaker cabinets and had connections in the world of speakers, then we might be able to clear up this little mystery. Hmmm, I wonder if there is such a person here ...

Wink-wink, nod-nod... Alas, I'm only connected to SICA-Jensen and Uraltone, their Finnish importer. Uraltone represents several makers, both HiFi and instrument speakers. They used to carry Celestions and Eminences, but lost the former to a Scandinavian distributor. Eminence disappeared from much of Europe a couple of years ago, as their cooperation with Adam Hall ended. We'll see what happens now that they were taken over by B&C speakers from Italy. Does everybody know that Celestion is owned by a major Chinese concern (GP batteries etc.) and most of their products come from China? The days when Made in China meant inferior quality are definitely over.

Speakers are less attractive items for retailers, as they move slowly and occupy lots of shelf space. It's illustrative of the scale of the retail business that I got hold of Scandinavia's only available sample of Celestion's Neo Copperback. Of course, Thomann, Tube Amp Doctor and Tube Town in Germany are quite well stocked. As for the unbranded Chinese speakers, I have no time or interest to wade through the offering, which isn't too well structured on the web.

Cheers,

Markku

[Markmann]

I am going to buy a Champion 20 soon and I want to know if a 10 inch speaker will fit? Looking at pictures of the back it certainly appears that there is enough room and I'm willing to make a new baffle if needed. I have not played through one but I have seen several videos and it does sound good for a practice amp but my experience with 8 inch speakers has not been good. I have a couple different 10's that I can try so I thought I'd ask you folks that have one.

[Gitterbug]

While this thread was hibernating, Jensen has released two new speakers I have already tried. The 30W Falcon 8 sounds larger than the size, so I'd try it before attacking the baffle. In the 10" caliber Jensen alone has many to choose from, with the new 50W Silverbird doing just fine against the pricier Blackbird AlNiCo and Tornado. P10R-F is another option but inferior for jazz IMHO.

[Markmann]

Good info. Have you tried the Falcon in the Champion? If so was it worth swapping?

[Gitterbug]

Sorry no, in my own Toob/Metro cabs only.

[John A.]

I am going to buy a Champion 20 soon and I want to know if a 10 inch speaker will fit? Looking at pictures of the back it certainly appears that there is enough room and I'm willing to make a new baffle if needed. I have not played through one but I have seen several videos and it does sound good for a practice amp but my experience with 8 inch speakers has not been good. I have a couple different 10's that I can try so I thought I'd ask you folks that have one.

Here’s the back of mine. There’s no clearance above and less than an inch below. I really don’t think a 10 is going to fit there.

[garybaldy]

I replaced the Blue Marvel in a small Peavey combo with a Jensen c8r. It's great with my Loar 700 with a floater.
In this roundup the Warehouse comes out tops (albeit not really in a jazz context). I couldn't get one in the UK and the cost from abroad was too much. The c8r fares well against the p8r.
6 for Swapping: 8" Speaker Review Roundup (premierguitar.com)

[pingu]

1322459[/URL]]While this thread was hibernating, Jensen has released two new speakers I have already tried. The 30W Falcon 8 sounds larger than the size, so I'd try it before attacking the baffle. In the 10" caliber Jensen alone has many to choose from, with the new 50W Silverbird doing just fine against the pricier Blackbird AlNiCo and Tornado. P10R-F is another option but inferior for jazz IMHO.

Are you making an 8” enclosure GB ?

[Gitterbug]

Are you making an 8” enclosure GB ?

This is really somebody else's game, but thanks for the serve, Pingu! Ideally, I'd want to introduce a new caliber using 250 mm pipe, but that would call for serious tooling investments, and I'd leave that to an eventual successor. I did build a prototype with a new internal structure, and it sounded good. But I also managed to wrestle the slightly oversize 8" speaker into the 200 mm Metro enclosure. The photo shows how I extended the front rims with slices from orange rims to accommodate the speaker. Instant recognition, but not very practical or cost-effective for larger quantities. The speaker works better with the four-port Metro GP backplate than the single-port BG variant. The cab + SuperBlock US behaved well in Friday's rehearsals with a three-horn octet, but frankly the basic 6.5GP has worked perfectly in that situation as well. The guitar was a Thinline Squier Tele; on Monday I'll try an archtop in a smaller ensemble.

[pingu]

thanks GB
I’d be interested in how it goes
with the 8” speaker …. and the archtop