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That looks good. Nice and simple.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
One thing nice about using an "FRFR" is that you eliminate a major variable in your signal chain. You no longer have to wonder "is it my guitar or is it my amp?".
I looked up your ME80 and it should work quite well. The only thing that it is weak on is the EQ. It only has a 3 band EQ in the preamp section. I note though that there is an additional FX2/EQ section and that also has a 3 band EQ. But I don't know if that is in addition to the 3 band EQ in the preamp section. If it is then you can possibly "gang" the EQ in the preamp section with the EQ in the FX2/EQ section to get a 6 band total EQ. Add the 2 band EQ in the BOSE S1 and you have possibly a total of 8 EQ controls. However that may not be as good as it sounds because some of the EQ bands could be duplicated.
The ME80 runs on 9 volts DC. Its nominal output level is -10 dBu which is .775V RMS which is 2.19V peak to peak. With a 9 volt power supply it then could deliver approximately 7V peak to peak (depending on what op-amps it is using - if any) without clipping. That's about 10 dB headroom which is not bad. I note too that the ME80 has a compressor section in it which may be useable as a peak limiter keeping your signal within the available headroom.
Note: "Headroom" means how much you can go above nominal level before the system starts to clip.
If you need more, you could get a small inline "boost box" which runs on 18V (two 9V batteries). You could then get possibly 16V peak to peak, so your headroom would be then approximately 17dB, which is pretty good.
Cheers and hope this helps
Avery RobertsLast edited by Avery Roberts; 12-03-2023 at 01:15 AM.
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12-03-2023 12:20 AM
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Thank you for this additional info. I didn't know those headroom numbers, but I've been using the ME80 on a near daily basis for years and the MEs 70 and 50 before that. Most recently, through the Little Jazz, or through the LJ, a mixer and the SRM350. I've never noticed any problem I attributed to clipping, maybe until now. Originally Posted by Avery Roberts
I like the LJ a lot, but I eventually started thinking that it sounded harsher than necessary on chords. Running it through a mixer and then into the SRM350 solved that problem -- which is why I started thinking about a powered speaker. It may be that you're right about the headroom issue -- and it only bothered me on chords.
I have thought about using the compressor as a limiter, but afaik it won't do that. It will also amplify the quiet sounds, which I generally don't want. I wouldn't mind being protected against sudden, usually accidental, bursts of volume.
There are two EQ sections. One requires selecting an amp model to which you can apply 3 band EQ (If they model different types of tone stacks, I've never noticed it). The other EQ section is stand-alone 3 band. Might be a little different, but I've never tested it. Fact is, although it works, I've tried it but never wanted to use it regularly. Something about it doesn't work for me.
How would the boost box work? Where in the signal chain?
Thanks again.
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A compressor doesn't amplify the quiet sounds unless you set it to do that via make-up gain. Otherwise, it just reduces louder sounds. A limiter is a compressor with a high ratio (10:1 or higher). Depending on the range of the controls on your compressor, you should be able to use it to limit transients without having a noticeable effect on quieter parts (threshold set to the highest level of your signal, high ratio, fast attack and release). It's harder to this right in performance than on a recording, but worth a shot before buying more gear. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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ME80 ---> Boost Box ---> Bose S1 Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I used to have a "booster box" which I made myself using a "gutted" MXR pedal. It is also called a "line level booster" or "line level amplifier".
I tried to find a commercially made version and this is the closest I could find that would fit your ME80. Note that it can use a 24V power supply! So it should be able to drive just about anything. The gold knob on top is a gain control.
Douk Audio L1 Mini Stereo Line Level Booster Amplifier Audio Preamp 20– doukaudio
An alternative to get more headroom is to run your ME80 outputs at -20dBu operating level provided that your Bose S1 can deliver full volume at that operating level. I checked Bose's website and could find no technical information regarding operating levels on the S1.
Hope this helps,
Avery RobertsLast edited by Avery Roberts; 12-03-2023 at 03:13 PM.
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Thank you. I think that this unit would accomplish what putting the Yamaha mixer MG10u in the signal chain did. No? Originally Posted by Avery Roberts
It amplified the output of the ME80 (-10dbu) to loud enough for the SRM350 to go full bore (louder than I'd ever want to play). The SRM350 wants +4dbu, which is about 5 times the voltage output of the ME80.
The Bose S1 that I'm looking at doesn't seem to have that problem. I plugged the ME70 (same output) into it and it worked fine immediately. Surprisingly loud, but that was in the store, not on a gig.
So, the Bose S1 has a couple of advantages over the SRM350. Smaller, lighter, doesn't need a preamp, has reverb and EQ (only 2 band, although the tone match software I think expands that capability). Main disadvantage is that I have to buy it and I already have use of the SRM350. I'm also thinking that the wireless feature could be useful to go into the audience while playing to check the sound. One reviewer, though, said the thing dropped out occasionally when he was using it -- unacceptable on a gig. But for just the sound check, sure.
I'll have to try the compressor in the ME80 again. There are only three knobs: attack, sustain and level. So, I have to figure out if it can be made to work as a limiter.
Several posters have suggested that there won't be much difference between the Blu/Bud and the Bose S1. I think the 5 band EQ is a point in favor of the Blu/Bud, but I'm not sure it's worth the extra $700. More difference between the S1 and a tube amp, with a different list of pros and cons.
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To me a similar paradox is that even after having found you the holy grail among guitars and the holy grail among amps many guitar players have several sound modifiers in between them.
Occasionally I use a powered speaker with a modeler preamp as input. The sound differs from other options but not necessarily in an uninspiring way. I only play small rooms so I have no experience with playing through a PA.
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For what it is worth, I plug a magnetic pickup straight in to the Hi-z input on my Allen & Heath mixer and then straight to powered Yamaha speakers. It sounds great. I have all kinds of vintage, boutique, etc. amps, but after many many gigs doing different setups, going soundboard straight to PA is great if you want a true clean sound. My little Allen heath mixer has reverb and some eq options to tweak depending on the room, and the advantage is that when you are playing a big room you get the full coverage of the room, rather than just a one-spot amp.
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note that the newer pro plus versionAnd, what to buy? If I get the Bose S1, it turns out that it may be as much as $800. That's the new version (pro plus) and a wireless instrument attachment. Will it really be the equal (or superior) to the Bud/Blu and therefore be a thrifty choice?
doesn’t have as many knobs for
the eq , reverb etc
I think you have to multiple
press the button for the various
functions
that may be ok with you
but i prefer the knobs
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They eliminated the knobs but they retained those functions. You press something to get access to treble, press it again for bass and once more for reverb. I'm not sure, but they may have expanded EQ options further with the tonematch software -- which runs from your phone or computer and provides additional sonic options. The button pushing is quick. I'd make the decision on which approach would be more likely not to get damaged -- if I knew. Originally Posted by pingu
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I've done this with my modeling setup. For several years, I *ONLY* used powered PA cabs. They sounded great with the modeler as long as you set the low pass filter for something around 5k. Otherwise, the frequencies that fall above a normal guitar speaker made it sound buzzy and harsh. This is not so noticeable if you are playing pure clean tones but for overdrive, it's a deal breaker. If you have a modeler, you can test this out by disabling the modeling and just using the reverb and the low pass filter.
There's one additional benefit for the PA cab though...For acoustic guitar where you *DO* want high freq content above 5k, it sounds amazing. Blows away any acoustic guitar amp I've ever used as long as you have something to provide some reverb. And they are a lot cheaper than an acoustic guitar amp. Since most PA cabs don't have EQ, you will need an additional device of some type.
One thing to keep in mind about the henriksen is that it's *NOT* a full range/full response cab. The tweeter in it is setup to be significantly less volume than something in a PA cab. This is a deliberate part of the design. It's designed to be able to be used clean and "dirty" without needing a low pass filter. However, it was less satisfactory for acoustic guitar. I talked to henriksen about this, and they recommended either replacing the tweeter or using a 2nd cabinet with a tweeter.
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I’ve tried the lowly (but great) Joyo American into a Bose S1 Pro with good results. The Joyo has a three band EQ. The Bose S1 Pro reverb is very decent. That said I prefer a good old tube amp.
Joyo:
Amazon.com
p.s. The wireless feature, longer battery power and slightly lighter weight on the Plus is not worth the extra money IMO. The original battery lasts 6+ hours plus you could always throw a power cable in your gig bag.
We often use the Bose S1 Pro as monitors and they shine in every situation. The fact that you don’t need to run a power cord to them is a bigger deal then one might think.
An extremely versatile piece of gear.
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I agree - the only completely reliable wireless rigs I've seen cost at least as much as the Bose S1. So I don't see how a wireless rig included with it could be any better than those that retail for $150 or less. At the very least, I'd test it out thoroughly before buying and be sure I had a return privilege. Maybe the state of the at has advanced a lot in 3 years, but I doubt it. Originally Posted by alltunes
I bought a Boss WL20 about a year before Covid hit and it's great when it works. Unfortunately, this (and every other one in the same price range that I've encountered) has periodic momentary dropouts. There's no rhyme or reason that I can identify - it just goes silent for brief periods of up to a second at least once or twice during most gigs. It happens at home too, and it happens even if I'm right next to the receiver.
It's not a big deal on a blues gig, but it sure can break up a nice jazz run or chord melody. If I were to buy another one, it'd be a Shure BL14 at the very least. The extra cost is worth it to prevent those dead air moments.
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Have you also tried going straight into Originally Posted by alltunes;[URL="tel:1301830"
the S1 ?
if so how was is ?
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I ordered a Pro + last night.
I hope that the new features are worth the extra $150. I considered the displays, controls, availability of tone match (which seems to include some additional EQ options, but I wasn't able to find documentation of exactly what they are), alleged sound improvements, XLR output and more convenient wireless, although I didn't order the wireless transmitter. I might. One reviewer mentioned the cut-out issue. But a friend who has two S1 Pro (not +) and uses them wireless only said he's never had the problem.
My main concern is the two band EQ. A selling point for the Blu/Bud -- which have 5 band. I've got 3 band in the ME80 -- hopefully between the two band, the tonematch EQ profiles and the ME80 (not to mention the good ol' fashioned treble cut on the guitar), I'll be able to tame the highs and lows. I was able to get a great sound from the SRM350 which has no EQ at all (well, one button that boosts highs and lows simultaneously).
I've got a return privilege. Once I decide I like it, I may order the transmitter and a carry case. The idea of being able to do my own sound check by walking out into the audience with a wireless guitar is appealing. My gigs rarely have a sound man.
I want to thank everybody who weighed in on this. Forum members were very helpful in figuring out why the ME80 wouldn't drive the SRM350 -- and, conversely, would drive the Bose S1. And, then, in sharing experiences relevant to choosing this particular powered speaker. Much appreciated!
Side note: I ordered it from Amazon. Same price as everywhere else. But, the return privilege is really well executed. All I need to do is click a few things on the website, pack the thing up and leave it outside my front door. Amazon picks it up and issues the refund. Zero hassle. Guitar Center is pretty good, but they don't serve breakfast in bed like that. Disclosure: Bezos owns Amazon, not me.
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Hence the slight hesitation about the Plus Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I tried a random HB guitar in the store right into the Pro +. Plenty loud enough. Sounded good, except at really loud volumes the bass frequencies bloomed and I had to dial the bass back. Originally Posted by pingu
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I tried today...I plugged my Telecaster straight into the Bose S1 Pro and it sounded quite good*. (personally I prefer the sound of a small tube amp with reverb) The S1 has a switch on each input for LINE/VOCAL/GUITAR. It sounded noticeably better on the guitar setting. Originally Posted by pingu
I wonder how much better the Bud 6 would in in fact sound then the S1? I also think that an archtop would sound great into the S1.
* with something like the Joyo American it sounds very good.
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I tried it with the S1 Pro +. No switch for Line/vocal/guitar; it seems to figure it out. EQ options are, frankly, strange. Originally Posted by alltunes
On the panel, it has bass and treble controls. You can adjust them from your phone using the Bose Music App.
The strange part is that the Bose Music App has dozens of presets for different instruments (including for example, specific guitars). But, there is no indication of what each preset actually does. No EQ curve. I called Bose today and was told they don't exist.
Worse yet, there is no option for graphic EQ. I'd rather have a 5 band graphic EQ than all the presets. Apparently, the hardware will do it (I'm speculating a bit here), but they don't have it in the app.
So, I try dozens of presets at home and pick one. Is that one going to sound good at my next gig? Am I supposed to try dozens more during the sound check? What if the club fills up and the sound changes?
It just seems like an odd omission. Or are they trying to sell expensive mixers?
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Hmmm this temps me to buy another "non-plus" for future use. Don't need wireless on the plus; almost seems like a step backwards ? Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Is the bluetooth control from a phone new? It's useful. The electronic controls are less convenient than knobs, if you're trying to control it from the panel on the device; in that way the older model is better IMO. But, you can do it all from a phone. The software loaded and worked flawlessly. Nothing difficult about it. Originally Posted by alltunes
I'm guessing, but I'm not sure, that the new one has many more EQ presets, for what they're worth. My first impression is that they went to a lot of trouble for something that's kind of half-assed.
It has a port that will charge your phone -- not a bad idea. And, an XLR out -- I haven't figured out how useful that might be.
The S1 makes it possible to go from guitar > wireless to S1 -- with the pedalboard in an effects loop. A player who moves around the stage might like that. Older jazz guys maybe not as much.
I've seen mixed reports about the sound. A couple of reviewers deemed it about the same. A couple others said it's better, but it isn't clear there was an A/B comparison.
A pound lighter.
Mostly, though, this is the same inner works (well, one reviewer mentioned that they fiddled with the port to improve the bass) with a new interface.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 12-06-2023 at 08:48 PM.
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I think version one had an app and you could pair two units together for Bluetooth music playback. But don’t quote me on that.
The out which was 1/4” now x-large is great for linking together monitors which I do all the time.
For me putting my iPhone away for a gig is pure peace.
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I saw something that suggested you can't mix the two versions in some situation or other. Originally Posted by alltunes
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I was referring to pairing two of the original S1s together. I’ve had mine for many faithful years now…since 2018.
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Both the Bose S1 and the EV Everse 8 allow you to plug a guitar right in. They have the correct preamplification.
Bose S1 has one reverb and two band EQ.
Everse 8 has a lot of different FX, 7 band EQ, parametric EQ and compression, among other features.
The Bud/Blu are reported to be very good with vocals. That would seem to imply a reasonably flat response at least in the range of vocals, which turns out to be very close to the full range of a guitar. E2 to C6 or so.
Which leaves me still wondering how the Bud/Blu differ in performance from, say, the Everse 8 or similar product. I'm aware that the Bud/Blu are smaller and lighter, but not by that much.
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