Action height discussion

[0zoro]

I would like to hear from members about how/why they chose their string height. I play a tele with 10-46 Ti´s and have, since I began my attempt to learn to play, tried to set my action as low a possible believing this would be an advantage. I have roughly 0.06” at both high and low e at the 15^th fret and of course have become used to this height using both fingers and pick. Recently I have read somewhere that a higher action can be an attribute for playing. Is this considered correct, bending discounted. So after this rather long prelude I wonder:


Is this entirely a question of preference, or are there actual advantages of higher action. If so what? Now this is not meant to be a discussion of personal preference but more over advantage or merits of high vs low action. Any thoughts?
0zoro

[mr. beaumont]

I'm different on different guitars really. I feel there's a place each instrument performs best for me.

My lowest action is on my Heritage 575, which I also use the heaviest strings...I don't do any precise measuring, I just know it's a little under 2mm on the treble side and right about at 2mm on the bass side, measured with a 2mm pick under the strings.

I keep my tele a slight bit higher as it feels better for "digging in" Interestingly enough, it's about the same place I have my flat top acoustic set up.

My acoustic archtop is set over 3mm right now, gives the right rhythm sound.

[AllanAllen]

Freddie Green had high action on his UN-amplified acoustic archtop to cut over the Basie band. Beside that extremely niche use, just set the action how you like it and play on.

[RyanM]

I go by the sound of the high strings, too low and they get plinky.

[Stringswinger]

Low as possible without buzzing works for me on all guitars.

[John A.]

Broadly speaking, the harder you pick the higher your action needs to be in order to avoid having the strings buzz against the frets. With an electric guitar you usually can get away with more buzzing, so you can get away with setting the action lower. With an acoustic guitar, you typically need to set the action a little higher than that because buzzing is more problematic. But exactly what measurements "lower" and "a little higher" are will depend on the player, the guitar, and subjective preferences. All that said, if you poll people on how they set their action, I think the responses fall within a pretty narrow range.

I'd guess that a large majority are at 3-5/64" on the treble side and 4-6/64" on the bass side for electrics, and 1/64"-ish higher for acoustics. My electrics are all a little above 3/64" treble and 4/64" bass +/- a scoche depending on stuff like whether the guitar has a "rising tongue" and subjective feel at the moment. My acoustic is a 1/64"-ish higher. I used to do this entirely by feel, but now if I have a new guitar or am setting up after a string (or string gauge) change or if the guitar seems off, I'll start out with a measured action height within these parameters.

[ruger9]

All my electrics I try to have the same relief/action on. That's my starting point. And it's higher than most people like probably. I don't like low action because I can't get the flesh of my fingers "under" the strings when they are too low. It's just how I play. It's not as high as Stevie Ray Vaughan's action probably, it's probably "medium" action?

But then yes- each guitar will tell you where it wants to be, so I adjust each guitar from there. Sometimes a 1/8-1/4 turn of a true rod, or a 1/2-turn of a height adjustment screw. This are different with arch tops of course (including my Gretsch), with only "bass side" and "treble side" height adjustment screws. Once again, I put the action at my normal starting point, and adjust as much as possible from there.

I've never been a "flat fingerboard" or "low action" person, even in my youth on my shredder with a Floyd Rose playing 9s. I play too viscerally for that.

[Oscar67]

As already mentioned by others, the guitar will tell you where it wants to be. And part of that is how hard you play. Another angle is preventing hand fatigue and things like tendonitis. I keep one guitar with really low action and light strings. I use that for long practice sessions. Not only is it effortless to play, but whenever I press down too hard or strum too hard the guitar will tell me to lighten up.

[JCat]

Is this entirely a question of preference, or are there actual advantages of higher action. If so what? Now this is not meant to be a discussion of personal preference but more over advantage or merits of high vs low action. Any thoughts?

"Action" is an ambiguous topic, because it involves an array of interrelated setup parameters, some of which are bound to the geometry of the individual guitar; i.e this is not just a matter of personal preferences, but also about the properties and boundaries of the frame. It must also be understood that many times tone and feel are two sides of the same coin; it sounds right when it feels right.

The first thing to remember is that bridge height does not equal "action". Bridge height is one of several parameters that affect action, but there are others, like for example nut height (nut action) and neck relief (string height across the length of the fretboard) and bridge slope (string height across the width of the fretboard). These are all examples of user adjustable parameters.

But then there are things that the average user cannot change; like the neck set angle, the head stock angle, neck twist or condition of the frets.

The second thing to remember is that acoustic guitars are fundamentally different than electric guitars. If you intend to get the loudest possible acoustic sound (e.g while playing an acoustic archtop in a big band) you need enough string height to strum hard. When you play electrics you just turn up amp volume and therefore don't need as much air under the strings.

[ccroft]

I like action. That's why I started playing this thing.

[Doctor Jeff]

“There’s no action…”

—Elvis Costello

[0zoro]

Were I to sum up the response to this thread I would conclude that there is no merit to higher action, but rather the contrary with the predominant tendency to set up as low as possible given the idiosyncrasies of the individual guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

I think you missed a lot of points if that's your summation!

[ruger9]

Were I to sum up the response to this thread I would conclude that there is no merit to higher action, but rather the contrary with the predominant tendency to set up as low as possible given the idiosyncrasies of the individual guitar.

...and given the idiosyncrasies of the individual player.

[0zoro]

I have clearly missed a point! Forgive me. Still I find the thread response to revolve around the realm of subjective preference, be it guitar geometry, music style, playing style or any of the variables of hand size, strength and or health etc rather than a more discernible object quality may be achieved with higher action. Is this not so? If there is something else I have misread of misunderstood, please point me in the right direction.

[sgosnell]

Action height does affect tone, but how much and what is good or acceptable tone is subjective. I've heard well-known players who apparently are perfectly happy with some buzzing/fret slap, because they always seem to have it. It's a compromise, like everything else, and different people are willing to accept different compromises. For some, low action is more important than tone. For others, the perfect tone is all-important. I suspect that most of us are somewhere in between, at least I am. I want the lowest possible action, but I don't like buzzing or fret slap, so I set my action as low as I can get it, then raise it until the tone is acceptable to me. That can vary from day to day. Action height also affects intonation, so a very different action setting may require some intonation adjustment, depending on the guitar, the strings, and how picky the player is about intonation.

[ruger9]

Action height does affect tone, but how much and what is good or acceptable tone is subjective. I've heard well-known players who apparently are perfectly happy with some buzzing/fret slap, because they always seem to have it. It's a compromise, like everything else, and different people are willing to accept different compromises. For some, low action is more important than tone. .

Tommy Emmanuel for one. I've heard him say it many times when talking about guitar setup. But his tone is plugged in, and the action/fret slap has a much smaller role to play there than in a purely acoustic tone.

[vintagelove]

As low as possible.

[oldane]

As low as possible.

..... and as high as needed to get the desired volume, dynamic range and buzz/slap free sound. The acceptable compromize between comfort (low action) and a big, clean sound (higher action) is individual for each player.

As others have said, nut slot heigth (on guitars without a zero fret) and neck relief also play a role for how the action feels. When setting up, I correct nut slot height first, then relief and finally bridge height. With a low action, I prefer only a little relief (but not completely flat). With higher action I like more relief. Generally, I have the action set higher on my acoustics than on my electrics. I can get away with lower action with beefier strings than I can with skinnier strings.

[ragman1]

My take on this is that everyone has their own style, like walking or writing. Trying to force yourself out of a natural style isn't good.

Incidentally, some players are natural spider crawlers with all four fingers at it, others prefer the three finger approach with occasional use of the pinky when necessary. Joe Pass was a crawler, Wes was a three finger player.

Trying to alter what comes naturally is bad for the body. Use what you've got. Play what you want. Play naturally. You'll be happier in the end.

[Cunamara]

4/64" at the 12th fret on all my guitars except nylon string, where it's 5/64-6/64." This applies to solid bodies, archtops, flattop steel string. The higher the action, the harder it is to play and the more your left hand has to work. And the greater risk of developing wear-and-tear arthritis in later years. I've never found that making the guitar gratuitously difficult to play was helpful in anything. If you've got a guitar at 6/64" and it's buzzing, there's a problem with your guitar.

[JCat]

4/64" at the 12th fret on all my guitars except nylon string, where it's 5/64-6/64." This applies to solid bodies, archtops, flattop steel string. The higher the action, the harder it is to play and the more your left hand has to work. And the greater risk of developing wear-and-tear arthritis in later years. I've never found that making the guitar gratuitously difficult to play was helpful in anything. If you've got a guitar at 6/64" and it's buzzing, there's a problem with your guitar.

I do agree with the principal sentiment of your post, but I think it's fair to add that string height at the 12th fret is just that. It's not an universal measurement of "action", it cannot be as it's not taking into consideration what happens before or after the 12th fret.
Most electric guitars got fret access above the 12th fret and many times string height at 17th fret is a more adequate measurement, regardless if you intend to play in that part of the register or not.
The reason 12th fret has become a standard for string height measurement (and 6th fret for relief) is because of traditional flattop acoustics that got the 12th fret right above the heel. (I would advice not to set up an electric guitar the same way).

[sgosnell]

I always thought that the 12th was used because it's convenient, and at the midpoint of the string. Geometry requires the string to rise higher above the frets the higher the fret number, unless the nut height is far higher than optimal. One could have the string be the same height all the way from the nut to the bridge saddle, but that would not be a pleasant instrument to play, and intonation would be terrible.

[spencer096]

I keep my action relatively high on all my guitars, relative to the type of instrument. Keeps my technique on its toes.

[John A.]

FWIW, Fender's published action spec for Strats is measured at the 17th fret. They suggest using the spec as a starting point and adjusting to the player's preference. But it really makes no difference where you measure, as long as you do it consistently, and as long as that spec is based on playability criteria. As a matter of geometry, if you know the height at the 17th, you know the height at the 12th, and vice versa. So if you spec 4/64" at the 17th, that's the same as spec'ing 3/64 at the 12th. Parenthetically, I find it interesting that Fender spec's different heights for different fingerboard radii, and for some radii the same spec for bass and treble sides, but different bass/treble specs for other radii. I guess they're factoring in string bending somehow?