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Have been looking for a decent entry level archtop hollow body as you know.....
Having trouble connecting to some sellers of a few that I am interested in.
I do have an option to buy an Ibanez PM20 for $600. Good shape overall with a few cosmetic dings.
All stock.
Opinions on this compared to the Ibanez PM2, or Epiphone Broadway?
Not a lot out there on the PM20 as it is older model from late 90's.
Thanks!
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10-24-2023 05:52 PM
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Of all the Ibanez PM models, the PM20 has always been my favourite. It's a no nonsense professional grade (in my opinion) well balanced and great sounding guitar that was built in Korea to the highest standards. It was the first mass produced Pat Metheny model after Pat had worked for many years using (and singing the praises of) his custom Fujigen model. The PM20 was based on that and it was built to last.
They play in really nice. They have great fittings and hardware. Nice neck and the instrument has the versatility that the best ES-175 type guitars have, great for a wide variety of music. There's a responsive top that sounds good even unplugged and the pickup has a warm sound with nice clarity. I took mine and replaced the pickup with a Duncan pickup for that really classic Gibson jazz box sound and that turned it into an absolute forever keeper.
The Ibanez Joe Pass and the PM20 set the bar for me as far as hollowbodies and workhorses of that ilk. In comparison and in day to day playing, I didn't connect with either the PM2 nor Epiphones which I felt were built heavier and just felt less responsive to me...or in my own opinion, less inspiring.
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Thanks for that info from your experience.
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I can't speak from personal experience, but here's a source of information on the guitar, along with any other Ibanezes that might interest you.
Originally Posted by Lkdog
The Ibanez Wiki Fandom Website, PM20
I've played several of the PM models in stores, and liked them, but never bought one.
I played the Epiphone Broadway in a store, and didn't care for it - it was too big, and I didn't like the scale length.
My suggestion is to just buy the guitar. They aren't available very often, and it's a great price for that model. If it's in reasonable condition, I don't think you'll find a better entry-level archtop in that price range.Last edited by dconeill; 10-24-2023 at 09:22 PM.
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Thanks. Saw that wiki post.
It is the transparent Black version. Original owner selling who gigged and recorded with it for years.
It’s has few minor cosmetic dings but nothing that impacts playability or is really noticeable.
Seems like a really decent price.
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Bonus of being played in=Big + Originally Posted by Lkdog
Yes check out the frets. If they're not deeply pitted, even if they're well worn, a good leveling, crowning and polishing and nut height adjustment will come in well under the cost of a refret and it'll actually give you a lower feel and allow for a lower action.
Yeah these PM20's are a great find because they're often eclipsed by the bling and hype of the subsequent models. These were the modest (I believe Peerless built) versions of Pat's actual working guitar at the time. They escaped the category of "Collectable" so the prices are often very affordable in the sea of higher priced prestige brothers.
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Not too worried about frets. He states they are in very good shape.
If not, one of my best friends is an expert luthier and can do a fret level, or complete refret.
He only charges $200 for total refret.
I think I will tell the seller I will take it.
Thanks for all of your input. Sounds like a solid model for my purposes.
Last edited by Lkdog; 10-25-2023 at 12:55 PM.
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I've been looking at the photos in the ad. If it were me, I would be very concerned about the stress cracks on both sides of the neck including the seam between the fretboard and the neck, and the joint on the right side of the neck where it attaches to the guitar body. It looks like the neck took a shock. It's possible the chunk out of the headstock and the fractures surrounding the neck are connected. Aside from that if you add the cost of a fret job to the purchase you are well over $1000.
I think you can do a lot better for the money ...
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He states they are cosmetic. It is a 26 year old guitar. Originally Posted by Bflat233
Shit happens and I have seen multiple high end PRS, Gibson, and of course Fender models with the same finish or stress crack issues.
1997 Ibanez PM 20 - musical instruments - by owner - sale - craigslist
But your point is well taken. Not worried about the fret issue as I noted above.
But your concerns certainly do give me pause. Maybe I should keep looking.......Last edited by Lkdog; 10-26-2023 at 08:45 AM.
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What ad? Were there photos that went with this transaction? Could you please post them in the thread? I can't seem to access the Craigslist ad and it could very well have some bearing on the soundness of this instrument. I'm a little surprised you had access to photos and didn't post them. Originally Posted by Bflat233
I was a tech/luthier on the Ibanez line and it was my job to assess the state of instruments that were headed for the sales floor. I was very good at identifying all manner of shock trauma and making a call as to whether it presented a potential problem.
OP, can we at least see the photos? Bflat233, how did you find this ad and why can't I seem to find it?
Thanks
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think this is it: Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
1997 Ibanez PM 20 - musical instruments - by owner - sale - craigslist
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I posted link above. Originally Posted by Bflat233
I do appreciate all of the input, but some here are pretty quick to assume the worst that it needs $500 fret jobs and has serious structural damage.
The seller is original owner and has responded to all of my questions appropriately about the cosmetic issues and has never had an issue using it for 26 years. I believe him.
Would also be using payment with buyer protection. I have been buying and selling guitars for three decades.
Never had an issue that could not get resolved.
But to allow you to all sleep at night I have decided to pass on it.
I can get an Ibanez AF105 locally that is mint for $500 and have played one before but I seem to recall it is a little bright. Not sure.
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I see possible cause for concern, but honestly, I can't make a recommendation on a course of action based on photos alone.
Were it photos alone, I'd be on the side of caution. If I had my hands on it and deemed it to be sound with poking and prodding, I'd buy it from under you, ha ha.
Frankly, you've got good advice from both sides, as far as anyone can tell from a CL ad. It's your gut call at this point.
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I appreciate all of the info and insight offered. This is a very active and informed and very supportive group of people here.
All of the same questions certainly came to mind for me. I will maybe chat with the Seller a little more.
Thanks everyone!
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$600 seems like a crazy good price to me. On reverb PM2's are over $1k and the PM20 imo looks better
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Trying to work something out. We will see. Originally Posted by chris32895
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To the OP - You ever end up buying this? I'm shopping around for one and want to know how thick the necks are on these
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Yes and it is a very solid guitar. No structural issues. Plays great and sounds great with stock pickup.
The neck is moderate. I can get measurements if you need them.
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Yes, please, that would be great! Shoot me a DM when you can Originally Posted by Lkdog
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Neck
.886 1st
.903 7 th
.912 (edit 10th fret)Last edited by Lkdog; 04-11-2024 at 11:22 AM.
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Wow that's pretty thick, actually. I'm assuming that was measured without strings and not on top of the frets? Originally Posted by Lkdog
If so, I'm surprised, I always thought of Ibanez hollow bodies as having thin necks.
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Yes, measured in middle of the indicated fret on the fretboard with my digital caliper.
Last edited by Lkdog; 04-11-2024 at 11:22 AM.
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Appreciate the info. If some of these have necks like that I will definitely keep looking for one! Originally Posted by Lkdog
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I made a small typo when posting the numbers.
The measurement listed at 12th fret of .912 should have been stated as 10th fret. That is the position before the neck starts to thicken out.
Really a middle of the road neck. Not skinny, not thick.
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