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Hi everyone
I was just wondering if I could get some advice.
I've got a Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb that's just outta warranty that's got an issue on it, when I play any of the wound strings there's no definition to the notes an it, an it sounds muffled and like there's a buzzing with no clarity. (Like a vibey sound)
The other day I went over the screws n managed to get half a turn on some of the speaker screws, it stayed OK for a lil while but then when I put it on full Watts at 3 on the volume 7 on the treble n 4 on the bass it broke loose on the screws again.
I'm just wondering is it just the screws that hold the speaker on or do they have anything else holding the speaker onto the baffle glue etc? (is that the right term?)
Just wondering if anyone has come across the problem or had any ideas, I was thinking off moving the speaker slightly and re tapping new screw holes.
Thanks in advance,
Lucy
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10-02-2023 09:20 AM
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I would reach out to fender anyway. Warranty or not, it's too soon for these amps to start falling apart.
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Thanks Allan, yep I have done theve told me to contact the supplying dealer first then if I get no where to contact them again with my original receipt (I'm part ways through a house move so like looking for a needle in a haystack.
They said it got shipped in to the dealer 2 years to the day yesterday.
I've not been able to play much due to a none related nerve injury in my neck so just getting back into playing again
Before I was playing alotta Danny kirwan n Peter Green stuff so hadn't noticed the issue creeping up so not quite sure how long it had been doing it. Was super noticable with me starting to learn the jazz stuff, my dad couldn't hear what I was going on about until I had tightened the screws then the difference was crazily noticable.
Hopefully it's something that I can get my head round as I don't wanna be without an amp sold all my valve ones (ac10 an a origin 20) to get it.
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I wouldn't get too hung up on the receipt. Try the store you got it from, they might be able to provide a copy of the receipt, a benefit of the digital age. Or if you used a credit card you can try to give fender a screenshot of the transaction from your banking website lining up with the store saying it was bought on the same date.... there are options. Or the store might just take it in and handle it all for you.
Don't give up.
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Thanks Allan yep I'll see how I get on with them
I really love the amp to bits so it's a bit of gutter although hopefully the last tighten might have sorted it seemed alot better before. Tomorrow will be the teller even the screws on the top of the metal plates on the top of the amp keep backing off as well.
Be interesting if anyone has hit the same issue.
Is anyone using an ep boost of any sort on the TMDR's?
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I would doubt that the screws are simply screwed in to the wood. Usually they are a machine type screw thru the wood using a blind nut on the face of the baffle. Are you pretty sure that's where your problem lies? Can you show a picture of one of them? I'm sure there is a easy enough fix if that's all it is.
Originally Posted by Lucy
Hi everyone I was just wondering if I could get some advice.
I've got a Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb that's just outta warranty that's got an issue on it, when I play any of the wound strings there's no definition to the notes an it, an it sounds muffled and like there's a buzzing with no clarity. (Like a vibey sound)
The other day I went over the screws n managed to get half a turn on some of the speaker screws, it stayed OK for a lil while but then when I put it on full Watts at 3 on the volume 7 on the treble n 4 on the bass it broke loose on the screws again.
I'm just wondering is it just the screws that hold the speaker on or do they have anything else holding the speaker onto the baffle glue etc? (is that the right term?)
Just wondering if anyone has come across the problem or had any ideas, I was thinking off moving the speaker slightly and re tapping new screw holes.
Thanks in advance,
Lucy
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Hi Ski thanks for the reply I'll pop one out tomorrow, tightening them when they loosen off sure stops the issue though,
That's what I'm thinking to if it's just them into the wood that I could rotate the speaker slightly and put them into new holes.
that's interesting on the blind nuts though I'll check that out, maybe someone who's done a speaker swap on one will chime in I did ask Fender for some details on the the speakers attatched apart from the screws but they didn't supply it.
I'm gonna have a more detailed look tomorrow if it acts up again
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Fender uses T Nuts to fasten the speaker to these. If one of the screws keeps popping out then it most likely means that the t nut has popped out. Its possible to fix this. You need to remove the speaker, put the t nut back into place (or install a new t nut if you damaged the original one) and then once that's stabilized you screw the speaker back on.
This is just assuming that the speaker nut is actually the issue. From your message I can't actually tell that it is. It could be a bad speaker connection. It could be a blown speaker. It could be (worst case scenario) some actual circuit component failure.
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Thanks for the reply
I'll check that out tomorrow, guess it's a good a place as anywhere to start, they've been backing off by about half a turn on 3 off them, when I tighten them up the amp clarity improved n the issue went away.
I think I'll start with that tomorrow, n check them out then progress onto the trickier stuff. Good learning experience if anything
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As for the receipt: Originally Posted by Lucy
- if you bought it with a credit card you can get your purchase records from your credit card company. That will show the date of purchase, the amount, and the vendor, at least.
- If you bought it with a check your bank can provide you with an image of the cancelled check. Will show similar info.
- If you bought it with cash I don't have an option to offer.
As for the issue with the amp, here are a couple of things to try.
- Try a different guitar, maybe someone else's guitar. This is to try to ascertain whether the issue is the amp or the guitar.
- Try playing with just one cable going into the amp, no pedals. This will provide the fewest variables in the signal chain.
- Try unplugging the internal speaker and play the amp through an external speaker. This might help isolate the problem to the electronics or to the cabinet and speaker.
- Try removing the speaker from the cabinet, but leave it connected, then play the rig like that and note what happens. What I'm thinking about here is that the speaker baffle might be warped and the speaker is being deformed by bolting it tightly to the speaker baffle. This might help you to evaluate if the problem is the cabinet or the speaker.
Good luck!
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If it's vibration loosening screws, try a dab of blue Loctite on the threads.
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Thanks DC I'll give that a whirl
I've tried it with a few different guitars, my Gretsch G5420 TG59 lefty an my epi les paul an a strat it's certainly the amp when it does it.
Just waiting on next door going out so I can have a whirl with it again.
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Playing through an external speaker instead of the internal one will certainly tell you if the problem is in the cabinet and/or the internal speaker. If the problem is present through the internal but not immediately after switching to external, it’s almost certainly not electronic unless there’s a loose or otherwise wonky part in the amp that’s being affected by the vibration of playing. And even if that rare situation is present, I can’t think of any reason that tightening the speaker mounting screws would affect that.
But I’m wondering if you have a cracked or otherwise damaged baffle, mounting ring etc. I’ve gigged actively with dozens of amps over the years, but I’ve never encountered more than one or two loose speaker retaining screws and only in a few cabs in which some hamfisted fool had clearly removed and replaced the mounting hardware (as evidenced by scratched or splintered wood, buggered screw slots & hex heads etc). And when tightened properly (ie not so tight that they damage the wood supporting them), they stayed tight. Fasteners that seem to tighten properly but soon get loose suggest that they’re compressing material that should be able to hold properly tightened fasteners but can’t because it’s been damaged (eg crushed by over-tightening).
Taking out the speaker and carefully inspecting the entire baffle board may reveal damage to the wood that’s supposed to hold the screws and threads or threaded inserts.
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Hi Never thanks for the reply, I emailed fender uk this week an they have asked me to speak to the dealer first, crazily it was shipped into the dealer the day I contacted fender so I might be in luck warranty wise, all fingers crossed that it was into the store before I bought it although it had just come in from memory when I got it, not heard anything back from the store yet.
I was quite suprised when I ran a screwdriver over the amp screws 3 on the speaker were solidly tight one I though overly so n the others at the opposite side of the speaker loose, the main chassis screws were tight but the ones that hold the chassis straps keep working loose to naturally I'm not swinging on them as I don't wanna overdo anything.
Not sure what material fender are using for the baffle board on these.
I was having a play on the amp to get a recording for when the dealer come back to me an it's sounding even more noticable now.
Thought it's best to explore the warranty option first if it's still under it as it was a really big purchase for me money wise, ive not been able to play it much hours wise due to a nerve injury I've been recovering from (none guitar related) so it's not like it's had a crazy amount of hours or gigging on it as I'm just learning at home.
I'll let everyone know how it goes once the dealer eventually comes back to me.
I did actually ask Fender how much a new speaker and baffle board would be as I'm capable of working on it with my dad but they won't sell the spare parts to anyone but an authorised repair centre to fix the amp which is a pain as I could replace them myself, I wish we had right to repair like the USA.
Total pain as I actually sold my other amps a ac10 a pathfinder 15r an a origin 20 to fund the Tonemaster. So not got a fallback at the moment something I might have to think about. I was saying to my dad dependant on the outcome will depend if I buy another Fender amp again in the future.
If I don't get anywhere with the warranty I'll work through all the kind advice you have all given me
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I have an RC booster that is "almost always on" when playing strat and tele with various fender amps. I don't have tmdr (I've tried one) but I've got an amp based on deluxe reverb with some modifications. Originally Posted by Lucy
I tend to not use a booster with archtops.
I have a multieffect unit with an ep booster model and it's similar and cool too.
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I wonder if the screw threads in your baffle have gotten a bit worn/loose. There are tricks to make it tighter like putting in a match/toothpick or mix saw dust and wood glue, wrapping some sort of twine around the screw. Some sort of lock washer or pan head screw or something like that might help. Vibrations that loosen screws are also sometimes dealt with by putting a bit of glue or lacquer on the screw head after tightening (nail polish is sometimes used).
I don't feel I have enough experience to know to exactly what to recommend but experienced amp technicians are usually used to deal with vibrations.
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Thanks for the reply Orri,
Thought I'd give an update to this I ended up sorting it myself in the end the issue was the speaker screw tension, ended up decoupling the baffle plate and speaker from the cab and the issue was still evident.
So I ended up slackening all the screws right off then tensioning them like you would a cylinder head for anyone that's not done that before an it's stayed good up to now for a few days an is back to it's usual good sounding self.
One thing I did notice when I was in the amp though was some of the screws into the chassis plate that were drilled at a 45 degree angle (the bit with all the electronics in) where the plate meets the back of the cab) bit shoddy really
An all the tolex had lifted off all over on the bits that go across the back of the amp so good job they stapled it as well as the glue had failed I'm gonna reglue that.
Thanks for the advice everyone
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Hi, and thank you! I just registered on the forum to say that. I have just had exactly the issue you described, and your fix worked. I first tightened all the screws holding the speaker, which improved things a little. Having established that the screws did affect the buzzing, I went ahead and loosened them all, then tightened them again incrementally until the speaker was secure with (as far as I could judge) similar tightness on all screws (I have never fooled with a cylinder head).
And it worked. The amp sounds the way it should and I am tremendously relieved.
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No problem at all Grant mine is playing up a bit again so I'm gonna try a lil bit of low tightness loctite on all the screws an ill report back.
Always the way isn't it you take it back to the store and in the big huge space they have an them playing cowboy chords or metal stuff there's no way it'd show up cue a debate.
I'm gonna try get a permanent solution sussed out though as it's deffo the speaker attachment that's an issue it's weird though as it's stuck solid to the baffle board but the screws are deffo affecting it more so if its not been played for a while either that or something is going on with the speaker cone.
There's been a few times where I've got rid of it completely. So fingers crossed I can repeat that but with the loctite and then itl stay put.
It's interesting others are having the same problem though
Glad I could be of help
Lucy
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I've never looked under the grille of a TM, so I don't know exactly how the speaker is secured. But a note of caution is in order - Loctite and similar anaerobic sealants only work between metal parts. If the screws that secure your speaker are anchored in wood, Loctite and similar agents will do nothing. Use Titebond or similar wood glue or something like 3M 4200 marine sealant on screws achored in wood. Originally Posted by Lucy
Even if the securing fasteners are bolts (i.e. they do not taper at all and thread into metal female receivers like T-nuts), they may or may not be any more secure with an anaerobic sealant. It depends on the closeness of fit of the threads to each other. Loctite etc are intended for use between threads with close tolerances, and the finer the thread pitch the better they will work. If the bolts have coarse threads and are a loose fit in the nuts (e.g. you can wobble the bolt in the nut), there's probably too much space between male and female threads for a sealant to get a grip and hold it.
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Thanks for the reply
yep they are into t nuts.
The last time I had it apart I had the baffle board + speaker removed an it was doing it so that's where I think the problem lies.
I'll give an update after the next time I've had chance to work on it.
Interesting opportunity to learn a bit.
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I find it quite bizarre that the bolts are loosening from the T-Nuts. i manage a wood-working shop that's used thousands of them. I've also had several combo amps with that kind of speaker mounting. I played in loud 'art rock' bands in the 80's and never saw this. Probably much louder than you're playing! (100 watt Mesa Mark Zero).
Something's wrong there. It is possible for the tangs on the T-Nut to bend under instead of pierce the board. Especially if it's MDF. I've had it happen. In that case the nuts are stripped and they can spin instead of tightening the bolt properly.
Maybe next time you have it apart you make a new baffle or rotate the speaker. Or at lease try to pop a nut off the board to make sure it's seated right. And as Never pointed out, make sure they used the right bolt for the nut. IE the threads mate. If you go for new holes get new bolts and nuts. Dirt cheap. No way they should be loosening.
Just in case you've never seen one running wild:
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Thanks CC yep itl be interesting to see if any has come loose again sounds dreadful on the wound strings when it happens. No clarity at and a secondary buzzing / muffled sound which it's doing again.
Sounds like a bowed string for want of a better term.
I was wondering if the board is warping then pulling on the speaker which is why the re tensioning works.
I'll report back tomorrow with what I find an take some piccies.
The speakers hard onto the board if they glued it or put it down with the board wet with paint but it's deffo changing things when you mess with re tensioning the screws.
Must admit I do regret letting go of my vox n Marshall for it as its not had alot of playing time on it really.
Thanks for the pic cc that could make sense if one of the t nuts is not right, I'll have to look into some new speaker grill cloth and reposition them. I'll take some pics n get a thread guage on them tomorrow as well.
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These amps are built to be throw away amps when out of warranty. Unless you can fix your self.
Labor cost make them not worth fixing and most techs won't touch them out of warranty. Some techs won't touch them at all.
Just the way it is folks.
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Yep I'd agree with that Pd.
Some pictures from when I had it apart bit disappointing to see the chassis screws in on an angle
At the moment it seems OK I used a paste type loctite that I had as a last ditch attempt.
It's been great today, same as last time two of the top screws had broken loose. If they come loose again I'm gonna make a new baffle be a fun lil project.
Tolex had lifted on the panels across the back of the amp as well.
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